What is so bad about a Pacer?

[61653 HTAFC]

I would love to send a load of 142 Cattle Trucks down London way, no offence to people in the smoke, but I would love to see Boris travel on one and see what fuss he would kick up

Indeed, I've said this before: If 142s were sent to the Goblin or even Aylesbury or Uckfield, there'd such a stink kicked up that Derby wouldn't be able to get some shiny new 172s rolling out fast enough! Just seems that unfortunately the voters in Castleford/Morley/Poppleton/Slaithwaite are not considered important enough to be heard.

(Apologies for being yet another moaning tyke, but I would quite like to swap the even the Aylesbury bubble-cars for a couple of 142s for say 6 months, just to see how all those toffee-nosed Southerners react!)

 

[Whistler40145]

Could you imagine if Pacers were based in Scotland?

Pairs of 142s working Glasgow Central to Stranraer services or even worse, Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness or Aberdeen!

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[61653 HTAFC]

Could you imagine if Pacers were based in Scotland?

Pairs of 142s working Glasgow Central to Stranraer services or even worse, Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness or Aberdeen!

Did Pacers ever run in Scotland when they were first introduced? Apparently they occasionally run Carlisle-Dumfries in place of Northern 156s but don't think that I've heard of them ever turning up anywhere else in service. Maybe the big windows would be welcome on the WHL though (not that they're cleared!)

 

[northwichcat]

Going back to the line brought up in the opening post. I travelled on the Sheffield-Lincoln line today and got an ex-LM 150/1 in one direction and a 2 car 144 in the other. I didn't see any high loadings either on the trains I was on or the ones they passed. In such circumstances the 144 has an advantage over the 150/1 in the seating not being 3+2 when it's not required.

Having not been on a 144 for a while it also refreshed my memory about what they are like and really I would describe them as an improved version of a 142, with the improvements relating to passenger comfort.

 

[tbtc]

Did Pacers ever run in Scotland when they were first introduced?

They were tested on the Bathgate line IIRC, dunno if in passenger service or not.

They'll have run to Berwick on Tweed, in the days that the Chathill terminator used to cross the Tweed - that'll have been the closet that they got though.

 

[northwichcat]

Good for scenic lines - you're nice and high up with panoramic windows - they should introduce them on the West Highland, Far North, S&C etc...

I noticed today when I was on a 144 stopped next to a 142 that the saloon is lower on a 144 and also the windows seem slightly smaller on a 144. Also, obviously with the high back seating you see less.

 

[valenta]

Could you imagine if Pacers were based in Scotland?

Pairs of 142s working Glasgow Central to Stranraer services or even worse, Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness or Aberdeen!

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They already do three hour journeys, from Middlesbrough to Carlisle.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I noticed today when I was on a 144 stopped next to a 142 that the saloon is lower on a 144 and also the windows seem slightly smaller on a 144. Also, obviously with the high back seating you see less.

Best place to sit in a 144 is the priority seats in the non-toilet car- where the toilet would be- In summer, the full-length windows in the bus-type doors opposite allow great views on the more scenic routes!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They already do three hour journeys, from Middlesbrough to Carlisle.

1632 dep Middlesbrough
1935 arr Carlisle

 

[ainsworth74]

They already do three hour journeys, from Middlesbrough to Carlisle.

I have a feeling that 156s are now diagrammed on all those services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have a feeling that 156s are now diagrammed on all those services.

Though of course this is Northern... So what's diagrammed and what turns up can be very different!

 

[ainsworth74]

Though of course this is Northern... So what's diagrammed and what turns up can be very different!

Of course but for the most part Heaton normally manage to turn out the right traction for the various diagrams. Of course if something goes wrong during the day that may change things but that can happen anywhere and isn't something Northern specific.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Of course but for the most part Heaton normally manage to turn out the right traction for the various diagrams. Of course if something goes wrong during the day that may change things but that can happen anywhere and isn't something Northern specific.

Indeed- Heaton only has 142s and 156s though anyway doesn't it? So it's always going to be one or the other. The routes covered by Newton Heath could be anything from 142/150/153/156 (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the Neville Hill routes could be anything from 142/144/150/153/155/158.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Could you imagine if Pacers were based in Scotland? Pairs of 142s working Glasgow Central to Stranraer services or even worse, Edinburgh Waverley to Inverness or Aberdeen!

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Even more dramatic would be seeing them crossing Rannoch Moor on the West Highland line and also crossing The Flow Country blanket bog on the Far North line.

 

[northwichcat]

Indeed- Heaton only has 142s and 156s though anyway doesn't it? So it's always going to be one or the other. The routes covered by Newton Heath could be anything from 142/150/153/156 (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the Neville Hill routes could be anything from 142/144/150/153/155/158.

Firstly the units based at the depots are:

Heaton: 142s, 156s
Neville Hill: 144s, 153s, 155s, 158s, 321s, 322s, 333s
Newton Heath: 142s, 150s
Allerton: 156s
Longsight: 323s

Secondly crews sign specific routes and traction. Manchester Piccadilly or Buxton crews do not, for instance, sign 144s, 153s or 158s but at least some Manchester Victoria crews sign those traction types.

Some Mid-Cheshire line services are worked by Victoria drivers but that doesn't mean a 144, 153 or 158 can be used on those services because no Victoria guards sign the Mid-Cheshire line. This means regardless of whether it's a Piccadilly or Victoria driver the rolling stock is limited to 142s, 150s and 156s.

 

[ryan125hst]

Firstly the units based at the depots are:

Heaton: 142s, 156s
Neville Hill: 144s, 153s, 155s, 158s, 321s, 322s, 333s
Newton Heath: 142s, 150s
Allerton: 156s
Longsight: 323s

Secondly crews sign specific routes and traction. Manchester Piccadilly or Buxton crews do not, for instance, sign 144s, 153s or 158s but at least some Manchester Victoria crews sign those traction types.

Some Mid-Cheshire line services are worked by Victoria drivers but that doesn't mean a 144, 153 or 158 can be used on those services because no Victoria guards sign the Mid-Cheshire line. This means regardless of whether it's a Piccadilly or Victoria driver the rolling stock is limited to 142s, 150s and 156s.

What do the drivers and guards need to do to sign a particular traction? I've got a vague idea (drivers will need to know where all the controls are in the cab and will need to know about the engine and transmission. Guards will need to know how to operate the doors. Both will need to know about the safety procedures, such as locking a door out of use). Can someone correct me if I have got any of this wrong and go into more detail please.

How much more training is needed if a driver or guard needs to sign a similar class? So, if they sign a 142, what needs to be done to allow them to sign a 144? There can't be too much to it as they are very similar? Do they just need to be aware of any differences?

 

[valenta]

I seem to remember that Pacers used to operate services from York to Newcastle - down the slow line via Northallerton. It would have been over a decade ago now - when Arriva used to operate the service. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[northwichcat]

How much more training is needed if a driver or guard needs to sign a similar class? So, if they sign a 142, what needs to be done to allow them to sign a 144? There can't be too much to it as they are very similar? Do they just need to be aware of any differences?

I think they also have to work the units every so often to keep their knowledge fresh.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I seem to remember that Pacers used to operate services from York to Newcastle - down the slow line via Northallerton. It would have been over a decade ago now - when Arriva used to operate the service. Can anyone confirm this?

In NS/ATN days there were definitely a few occasions where 142s deputised for 158s on Transpennine services.

 

[ryan125hst]

A quick update with regards to my opinion of Pacers:

I travelled on the same route as before on Wednesday 29th July and ended up on 142's each way. On the outward journey, I was surprised to see that there was a destination display inside the train (although it displayed Doncaster instead of Adwick as far as Sheffield. It then displayed Lincoln as we set off before reverting to Doncaster!). The seating arrangement was 2+3 making the isle very narrow, and the legroom was very poor.

It was only when I got off that I realised that I was on one of the dreaded ex Merseyrail units, confirmed by the electronic destination display on the rear of the train!

The return journey was a bit better as it was an ex Arriva Trains Northern unit. How do I know? It still had ATN seats! The seats were in a 2+2 layout although the legroom was still poor and some of the headrests were broken and hanging off!

We had a bit of drama between Worksop and Retford on the return journey. A few minutes away from Retford, I felt that the trains was braking. After gradually slowing down, I heard the AWS sound (I was towards the centre of the front carriage) and we came to a stop at a red signal.

I noticed a bit of activity in the cab, and the driver appeared wearing a high-viz jacket! He opened the exterior door and climbed out of the cab, closing the door behind him. I couldn't see what he was doing (Signal post telephone?), but he soon climbed back on board and entered his cab, the guard entering too.

After a very brief chat, the guard appeared and returned to his cab, and we set off slowly after a long sound of the horn. We then went over a level crossing , (the barriers were down) sounding the horn again. The guard now apologised for the short delay and said that it was due to a signal failure. After the crossing, we accelerated once more and arrived into Retford about six minutes late.

Overall, I think the biggest problem with Pacers on that route at least is the uncomfortable seating and the lack of capacity. It wasn't quite as busy this time, but there were still a few standees. The ride quality isn't too bad on this route, and other than when navigating the point work into Sheffield, they don't squeal much either.

If they had better seating and were double up, they would be fine for that route in my opinion. That said, I would prefer a 156!

 

[driver9000]

What do the drivers and guards need to do to sign a particular traction? I've got a vague idea (drivers will need to know where all the controls are in the cab and will need to know about the engine and transmission. Guards will need to know how to operate the doors. Both will need to know about the safety procedures, such as locking a door out of use). Can someone correct me if I have got any of this wrong and go into more detail please.

How much more training is needed if a driver or guard needs to sign a similar class? So, if they sign a 142, what needs to be done to allow them to sign a 144? There can't be too much to it as they are very similar? Do they just need to be aware of any differences?

Full preparation and disposal routines. Vehicle layout above and below solebar. Faults and failures - how to recognise symptoms and how to rectify faults plus any effects on performance a fault may bring for a class (reduction of speed for instance). Effects of MCBs tripping. How the air and electrical systems work. How to handle the train. Multiple working restrictions (maximum length). The knowledge required to sign a type is quite in depth and the training is followed up with a written exam and in some cases you'll be required to take a handling trip (such when moving to a new type of brake) before signing your traction card.

With regard to converting to a similar class then it depends on the differences between the types it can range from a few hours to a few days. In the case of 142 to 144 then the conversion is above solebar relating to equipment location and vehicle layout as below solebar a 144 is identical to the 142.


The Pacer might be rough around the edges and long in the tooth but they are solid little workhorses which generally go about their business with little fuss.

 

[Beveridges]

Pacers - very reliable, would probably last forever with NH maintenance, easy to prep, easy to fix if they go wrong, but uncomfortable as hell - I am glad I do not have to take one any further than the depot boundaries.

I understand that some mainline drivers have diagrams where your driving a Pacer for 6 hours or more in a day. There are also numerous complaints of pacers causing back pains and injuries.

The suspension is p**s poor - When using them as a passenger I cannot read written or electronic text while on the move without feeling sick for hours later. On a 150 I can.

 

[Drsatan]

The suspension is p**s poor - When using them as a passenger I cannot read written or electronic text while on the move without feeling sick for hours later. On a 150 I can.

I have noticed that the ride quality on a Pacer gets progressively worse the faster it travels. On jointed track at high speed (such as Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple) the ride quality is pretty horrible. At low speeds, I find the ride quality to be tolerable, unless the train is full and standing.

I don't know whether it's me or not, but I've noticed that the ride quality on a 142 is even worse than on a 143 or 144: I don't know whether this is down to a different suspension design or not.