What is the best way to train it from London to Thurso?

[tranzitjim]

Hello my fellow forum users.

I seek a very simple question. I want to travel by train from London, and go by train all the way to Thurso, right at the very top of Scotland.

I want to know various travel options, from the quickest and most direct, to the most scenic ways too.

I read somewhere that there may be a once a day service that may run direct between London and that area of Scotland?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok, let me start the chatter with the following;

My quick few hours of research suggest that my best choice would be to travel from Kings Cross in London, and change at Glasgow. I should be able to get something from Glasgow to Thurso?

While I am here, can you suggest anything interesting for a train buff, where I can do a small detour from the most direct route to go and see?

 

[Searle]

There's one service a day that runs from London Kings Cross- Inverness, but as it departs at 1200 and arrives at just after 8pm, the last train to Thurso has already left, so you'd have to do an overnight in Inverness.

My best plan would be either to do the Highland Sleeper from Euston the night before, and then get a train onto Thurso in the morning. Either that, or wake up very early, get a train to either Edinburgh/Glasgow (from Kings Cross/Euston respectively), connect there to Inverness and then another connection onto Thurso.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Do it overnight. Get the sleeper to Inverness, breakfast in Inverness, train from Inverness to Thurso. You'd be there by early afternoon.

 

[JohnB57]

Do it overnight. Get the sleeper to Inverness, breakfast in Inverness, train from Inverness to Thurso. You'd be there by early afternoon.

I may be wrong, but I think the point is the journey rather than the destination. Where's the fun in sleeping through most of it?

 

[najaB]

Ok, let me start the chatter with the following;

My quick few hours of research suggest that my best choice would be to travel from Kings Cross in London, and change at Glasgow. I should be able to get something from Glasgow to Thurso?

While I am here, can you suggest anything interesting for a train buff, where I can do a small detour from the most direct route to go and see?

First off, this is a journey that really should be done in the summer. If the point is to enjoy the journey then you'll miss way to much travelling at this time of the year. If I was doing it purely for enjoyment and was in no hurry, then I would go Euston to Carlisle, Carlisle to Newcastle, Newcastle to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Glasgow on day one. (Time it right and you can avoid changing at Edinbugh as there are direct trains). Then Glasgow to Inverness, Inverness to Thurso on the second.

You should be okay to do that on a standard return ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I may be wrong, but I think the point is the journey rather than the destination. Where's the fun in sleeping through most of it?

The Sleeper is a unique experience, though.

That said, if you want to be awake during it, the WCML is far more scenic than the ECML (even the southern part is relatively "green and pleasant land" rolling hills) - if you want a good view try to end up on one of the via Brum trains that is a double Voyager rather than a Pendolino. Or bring the S&C in on it. Then up to Inverness (very scenic) and on to Thurso. But that'll require a stopover somewhere along the way.

Neil

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You will need to go via Inverness, the regional capital of the Highlands.
There is a day East Coast train through to Inverness from King's Cross, and a night train (Caledonian sleeper) from Euston.

Alternatively you can go on London-Glasgow trains from Euston (Virgin) or London-Edinburgh trains from King's Cross (East Coast), and then get a Scotrail train from Glasgow or Edinburgh to Inverness.
If you go via Glasgow you will need to change stations from Central to Queen Street, whereas Edinburgh trains use the same station at Waverley.

Once in Inverness you then take a direct Scotrail train towards Wick, which calls at Thurso 40 minutes before terminating at Wick.

What time of year will you be going, and how much time have you got?
It matters if you want to see the scenery en route.
Winters are dark and summers are light up there.

There are hourly fast trains Euston-Glasgow and King's Cross-Edinburgh taking about 4.5 hours.
Glasgow/Edinburgh-Inverness trains are about every 3 hours taking about 3.5 hours.
There are just 4 Inverness-Thurso trains per day taking about 4 hours, so you have to time your arrival in Inverness carefully.
You could do the journey in one day if you have to, but it is a LONG journey and best split into two if you have the time.

Different sorts of tickets are available, and many would let you travel one way on Virgin and the other on East Coast from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh, and allowing you to break your journey en route if you wish.
If you can fix your dates there might be some very good Advance deals available, but you can't book these more than about 3 months in advance.

Hope this helps.

 

[St Rollox]

Is there any catering on the Inverness/Thurso/Wick train?

 

[najaB]

Is there any catering on the Inverness/Thurso/Wick train?

Yes, there is a trolley service.

 

[anti-pacer]

The Sleeper is a unique experience, though.

That said, if you want to be awake during it, the WCML is far more scenic than the ECML (even the southern part is relatively "green and pleasant land" rolling hills) - if you want a good view try to end up on one of the via Brum trains that is a double Voyager rather than a Pendolino. Or bring the S&C in on it. Then up to Inverness (very scenic) and on to Thurso. But that'll require a stopover somewhere along the way.

Neil

I normally agree with your posts Neil, but I cannot agree that the WCML is more scenic than the ECML, save for the bit around Tebay.

The ECML in the southern part is rather dull, but north of York you get views of the North Yorks Moors with the White Horse at Helmsley on one side, and the Dales on the other.

North of Newcastle you get glimpses of the coast along with Lindisfarne, and then north of Berwick you're right next to it.

Other landmarks on the journey include;

Emirates Stadium for football fans
Alexandra Palace
Peterborough Cathedral
York Minster
Durham Cathedral
Angel of the North
Tyne Bridges
St James's Park for football fans
Holy Island/Lindisfarne
Berwick upon Tweed
The sea
North Berwick Law and across to Fife
Arthur's Seat
Edinburgh Castle and general skyline

That's enough to keep anyone going on a long journey.

 

[berneyarms]

Tranzitjim, I would strongly advise that as you are in Australia, you invest in a Britrail pass for your trip.

They offer a wide range of rover tickets that will offer unlimited travel either in 1st or standard class over a number of days (you select the most appropriate option). That way you can hop on and off trains as you see fit without restriction (except for the Sleepers which must still be booked in advance).

Details are at www.britrail.net

Note (and this is very important) that they have to be purchased before you travel.

The 1st Class versions can offer very good value if many of the trains you plan on taking have that facility.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I normally agree with your posts Neil, but I cannot agree that the WCML is more scenic than the ECML, save for the bit around Tebay.

I think it's nice rolling hills[1] with a bit of Northern industry, though I see your point. That said the bit around Tebay is nothing short of stunning, and as I'm rather a fan of scenic proper mainlines (far more so than things like the Ffestiniog) I really rather like it.

(My favourite scenic rail journey remains Lausanne to Brig then on to Domodossola - big hills, lakes, snow, and proper trains at a proper speed).

[1] I do enjoy a south WCML commute through the Chilterns, particularly at sunrise/sunset - it is *classic* English scenery.

Neil

 

[anti-pacer]

I think it's nice rolling hills with a bit of Northern industry, though I see your point. That said the bit around Tebay is nothing short of stunning, and as I'm rather a fan of scenic proper mainlines (far more so than things like the Ffestiniog) I really rather like it.

(My favourite scenic rail journey remains Lausanne to Brig then on to Domodossola - big hills, lakes, snow, and proper trains at a proper speed).

Neil

The Tebay bit granted is nice, and I like how the M6 snakes with it.

North of Carlisle is also nice although where it follows the M74 it's a bit samey. Forest, moor, valley, forest, moor, valley. It's like mirrors repeating themselves for a while.

One thing I do like about it though is after all them miles of almost emptiness, suburban South Lanarkshire creeps up on you.

South of MK it's nice, especially with like you say the Chilterns as a backdrop. I always look out for the lion at Whipsnade.

 

[Class377]

Maybe I'm a bit of a luddite, but whilst rolling hills and fields are nice to look at, several hours of them is a bit boring! I like the ECML for the stretches of scenery interjected by the major cities such as Peteborough, Doncaster, York, Newcastle etc. The line through Durham is just spectacular as well without being too urban.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I normally agree with your posts Neil, but I cannot agree that the WCML is more scenic than the ECML, save for the bit around Tebay.

The ECML in the southern part is rather dull, but north of York you get views of the North Yorks Moors with the White Horse at Helmsley on one side, and the Dales on the other.

North of Newcastle you get glimpses of the coast along with Lindisfarne, and then north of Berwick you're right next to it.

Other landmarks on the journey include;

Emirates Stadium for football fans
Alexandra Palace
Peterborough Cathedral
York Minster
...

That's enough to keep anyone going on a long journey.

Yep, nothing passes 2 hours and 188 miles like looking out for a cathedral in Cambridgeshire then nothing but fields for 100 miles. By the time you've done that on the West Coast you're bearing down on Preston and the start of the fantastic trip up to Carlisle. I will agree though with your sentiments on Carlisle-Carstairs, it's one of the best stretches of line in the country, with trains being in the open for about 99% of it and the Pendolinos demonstrating their sheer raw power for about 80 miles. Also some very fine scenery too.

 

[anti-pacer]

Yep, nothing passes 2 hours and 188 miles like looking out for a cathedral in Cambridgeshire then nothing but fields for 100 miles. By the time you've done that on the West Coast you're bearing down on Preston and the start of the fantastic trip up to Carlisle. I will agree though with your sentiments on Carlisle-Carstairs, it's one of the best stretches of line in the country, with trains being in the open for about 99% of it and the Pendolinos demonstrating their sheer raw power for about 80 miles. Also some very fine scenery too.

But the scenery on the ECML starts north of York, and I already agreed it's boring south of it.

It's no different on the WCML south of Preston, apart from part of the Staffs Trent Valley and the Chilterns.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But the scenery on the ECML starts north of York, and I already agreed it's boring south of it.

It's no different on the WCML south of Preston, apart from part of the Staffs Trent Valley and the Chilterns.

It was more the line 'That's enough to keep anyone going on a long journey' I was querying, looking out for one big church over the course of about 180 miles isn't riveting I will agree that both the ECML north of York and WCML north of Preston are excellent.

 

[anti-pacer]

It was more the line 'That's enough to keep anyone going on a long journey' I was querying, looking out for one big church over the course of about 180 miles isn't riveting I will agree that both the ECML north of York and WCML north of Preston are excellent.

Yes OK, point taken. I should have included Stevenage's lovely skyline and the Royal Mail depot just north of Peterborough as well!

The ECML between Peterborough and Huntingdon is thoroughly dull, although the rest of the line south of York is pleasant enough, if nothing amazing. The same can be said for the WCML.

I agree that both lines offer far much more in their northern sections.

 

[IanD]

If it's a round trip you're doing then I'd go Euston-Glasgow-Aviemore-Inverness-Thurso (Bus to Wick via John O Groats) Wick-Inverness-Aberdeen-Edinburgh-King's Cross (or the same in reverse). Or as an alternative Glasgow-Fort William-Mallaig (Bus and Ferry to Kyle of Lochalsh) Kyle of Lochalsh-Inverness and onwards - given the choice I'd do this route instead of the detour via Aberdeen rather than missing out the Highland mainline via Aviemore.

That way you get to see both East and West Coast mainlines between Englnad and Scotland and can judge for yourself which has the better views. (West for my money - East is quite boring except north of Newcastle).

 

[tranzitjim]

Thanks kindly for all the great responses.

Some quick responses from me,

++ I do not know how much time I will have.

++ Yes, I would like to see what I can see from the window. However, if time and options are too tight, then an overnight sleeper may be taken.

++ I hope to travel mid year, being your Summer. Although I am heading to Thurso, being a Sinclair myself to see my heritage, and to meet up with fellow members of the Australian 'Sinclair Clan' club/group. I forget now what time they are going there.

++ I am keen to avoid flying, both I am a train buff, and also the carbon footprint issue too, and there is a third point, getting to see the countryside from the train window.

I solumly refuse to take the most popular airline route which would take me over Ukrane and the Middle east. Two very dangerous war zones. So, I hope to go there and back via the Pacific then USA. I shall fly across the Pacific and Atlantic, but train it across the USA.

As I do not know if I may ever come this way again, I may choose to break my journey once or twice as I go either up or down the coast.



Some questions I wish to ask include,

If I where to go ECML one way and WCML the other, which is better first?


One other question worthy of asking is

I am wondering if it may be too much time/hastle to fly to somewhere in Spain, then train from there to London.

What are the best train routes between a Spanish airport and Paris?

I do not yet know if I aim to land at London or somewhere in Spain. I only speak English and am not sure about 'non-English' countries.

 

[berneyarms]

For continental travel information, your bible is www.seat61.com

 

[najaB]

If I where to go ECML one way and WCML the other, which is better first?

I do not yet know if I aim to land at London or somewhere in Spain. I only speak English and am not sure about 'non-English' countries.

As you can tell from the discussion on here both lines have their merits, I really don't think it makes a massive difference which way round you do it. I think it fair to say that the WCML is slightly better for landscape, the ECML for man made features.

My experience (and the experience of friends) has been that enough people speak enough English that you are at little risk of getting lost or stranded on a transit through Spain and France.

 

[30907]

If it's a round trip you're doing then I'd go Euston-Glasgow-Aviemore-Inverness-Thurso (Bus to Wick via John O Groats) Wick-Inverness-Aberdeen-Edinburgh-King's Cross (or the same in reverse). Or as an alternative Glasgow-Fort William-Mallaig (Bus and Ferry to Kyle of Lochalsh) Kyle of Lochalsh-Inverness and onwards - given the choice I'd do this route instead of the detour via Aberdeen rather than missing out the Highland mainline via Aviemore.

That way you get to see both East and West Coast mainlines between Englnad and Scotland and can judge for yourself which has the better views. (West for my money - East is quite boring except north of Newcastle).

Or Glasgow - Ft William - BUS through Great Glen to Inverness, which is quicker and cheaper than via Skye. I would still try and fit in the Leeds -Settle - Carlisle route somehow if I had time.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I may be wrong, but I think the point is the journey rather than the destination. Where's the fun in sleeping through most of it?

Late to reply and others have spoken, but the sleeper is an experience in it's own right. While not in any imminent danger, the long term future of the service is questionable and in ten or twenty years you might not be able to catch one. Being able to chalk it off of the list of things done is always worth considering, and you still get three or four hours of Scottish scenery in broad daylight on the second leg of the trip.

 

[Bevan Price]

If you find you have plenty of time, I would definitely suggest breaking your journey with overnight stops in each direction. Possible locations for stops could be :
York (National Railway Museum near the station....)
Edinburgh (many tourist sites)
Inverness (convenient stop-over location for Far North)

Returning south - maybe Glasgow, or somewhere nearby (Somewhere like Ayr or Stirling might be less expensive than Glasgow.)

As a train buff, you might wish to visit the Heritage Railways events page to see if there any special events taking place during your visit - these may help to choose somewhere for an overnight stop

http://www.heritage-railways.com/events.php?bf=1

Thurso is not a large town. If you want an overnight stay, you are advised to book in advance; the same applies to Inverness. The Visit Scotland website should be able to assist with obtaining accommodation:

http://www.visitscotland.com/

 

[causton]

Definitely another point for the sleeper. It is a unique experience, and you will still see a lot... you don't have to sleep if you want to see all the scenery! Fall asleep for the boring bits in th south, wake up in Scotland early morning and watch the country wake up as you arrive into Inverness!

 

[anti-pacer]

Definitely another point for the sleeper. It is a unique experience, and you will still see a lot... you don't have to sleep if you want to see all the scenery! Fall asleep for the boring bits in th south, wake up in Scotland early morning and watch the country wake up as you arrive into Inverness!

Fall asleep for the boring bits in the south? What and miss Hemel Hempstead?!

 

[Jegerpizza]

What are the best train routes between a Spanish airport and Paris?

There is a dirrect TGV train from Barcelona-Sants to Paris. So you could land in the airport at Barcelona, get a commuter train from the airport to Barcelona-Sants and continue to Paris on the TGV

 

[tranzitjim]

What is the best way for me to get PDF or HTML timetables of which I can get a printout of?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
After my above post, I have no since had a re-read of the whole thread.

Many thanks to each of the persons who have posted something in this thread.

I have some more questions I seek to ask including,

++ Does the EuroRail pass include the UK, or will I need a BritRail pass too for a journey from Barcelona to Thurso?

++ Does it include travel on the London Underground, or should I get an Oyster card for that?

++ If I where to stay in London for a week, what would be the best day trips out west or around London by train?

++ Could you recommend any same day return trips out of Glasgow and/or Edinburgh of which do not include the ECML WCML or the line to Inverness?

++ While I am here, are there any areas in or around London, Glasgow, or other parts of the UK in which you would recommend I stay out of due to bad security or high crime rates etc?

 

[30907]

Timetable options are here. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/timetables-and-travel/

Britrail doesn't include London Underground, and Eurail doesn't include GB - but if you are only doing a single trip Barcelona-Paris-London you won't want a Eurail. Google for more advice or just read www.seat61.com.

Day trips - depends what you want: lots of trains, historic cities, scenery... maybe you could be more specific and then watch us disagree

Security - short answer is no.