What is the cause of unreliability of Vivarail Class 230 trains?

[hooverboy]

We need to be realistic. The only option is to make the trains work. It has looked, twice, since introduction that this had been achieved only for it to fall away.

Next week needs to be rock solid to show this week was a blip

sure, but contingency plans ought to be in the works by now.
if it hasn't worked then the trains should still be subject to some kind of recompense under warranty

 

[DarloRich]

sure, but contingency plans ought to be in the works by now.

They are: one small bus and one large bus

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ok. I will comment on what I like. I use the trains daily so dont care what rtt or a spotter mag or anyone else says. I know what is going on. The service is crap. I no longer care if it is the train or the staff. I care that I am in a cab home again or walking in the rain and the cold.

Btw it wasnt train crew problems earlier in the week whe the train failed or the numerous times the things run late on one engine making me late for work or late home.

It was "due to a fault on the train" on Wednesday morning. About 10 seconds after I'd retrieved the ticket from the TVM, causing me the added faff of posting it back for a refund.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are: one small bus and one large bus

"This train is formed of one coach". Literally.

If they were permanent (until either a Vivarail reliability improvement plan was in place or other stock was available) you'd at least know what to plan for. That's the problem. It's a complete lottery.

 

[richieb1971]

Is it absolutely out of the question to have a Thunderbird loco positioned at Bletchley or Bedford?

In the old days they did that, not that the loco was a thunderbird, just that it was BR days where locos were stabled in those locations.

Only privatization could pose a solution that involved buses. Its not like the railway is broken, every business should have contingency.

 

[causton]

Is it absolutely out of the question to have a Thunderbird loco positioned at Bletchley or Bedford?

That wouldn't help much.

I don't know if there have been any incidents at all where the unit hasn't been able to move away under its' own power - even the "fire" one this week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it absolutely out of the question to have a Thunderbird loco positioned at Bletchley or Bedford?

We all thought a third unit would solve the problem that occurred when the 153 failed. The trouble is the Vivarail kit is so much less reliable that it, er, doesn't.

 

[richieb1971]

We all thought a third unit would solve the problem that occurred when the 153 failed. The trouble is the Vivarail kit is so much less reliable that it, er, doesn't.

Yeah, but looking back at the thread its obvious some trains are cancelled. Talk of buses and delays etc. If you have a thunderbird stationed nearby services can resume as normal.

Why is it ok to have 37's running in Wales and East Anglia to solve stock issues but its not ok to use them on the Vale line?

I think there is more political will to get the 230's running more than anything. Which is fine, but not at the cost of the passengers service expectations in my humble opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why is it ok to have 37's running in Wales and East Anglia to solve stock issues but its not ok to use them on the Vale line?

Because of the platform length vs. level crossing/signal issue. It wasn't the case years ago, 31s top and tail on Mk2s have worked the line in the 90s.

The decision to rejig everything to 2x20m was foolish in the extreme. Had they done 2x24m instead, noting that all recent DMUs are around that length, we'd have had 2-car 172s by now and none of this issue would be happening.

 

[Gary B]

Ive not heard anything from real drivers on here about the 230s. Just some whinging spotters who don't drive trains. I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ive not heard anything from real drivers on here about the 230s. Just some whinging spotters who don't drive trains. I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

You must be careful not to describe regular passengers on the Marston Vale line who have used these units since inception as "whinging spotters". These are people who have been inconvenienced in past times when the units were not providing a service and have been able to relate their feelings on this thread.

I just do not know how to address an answer to the final sentence of your posting above which mentions "put their lives at risk".

 

[43096]

Ive not heard anything from real drivers on here about the 230s. Just some whinging spotters who don't drive trains. I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

You make it sound like they are driving an F1 car at 200mph. There are plenty of much more dangerous occupations out there than being a front end seat warmer.

 

[D365]

I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

That's a strange comment to make, clearly the units have met the necessary safety requirements.

 

[ed1971]

It is disappointing that unreliability of the 230s is still continuing. I can't help but wonder if it would have been simpler and more reliable to have reused the engines and transmissions from scrapped Pacers on these sets instead, even though it would have meant replacing the bogies.

 

[John R]

It is disappointing that unreliability of the 230s is still continuing.

Have you some information to share on recent reliability to support that comment. It's a few weeks now since there have been any adverse reports, which usually means things have settled down, but "is continuing" would suggest that things are still not all well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is disappointing that unreliability of the 230s is still continuing. I can't help but wonder if it would have been simpler and more reliable to have reused the engines and transmissions from scrapped Pacers on these sets instead, even though it would have meant replacing the bogies.

They could just have used Pacers.

 

[keith1879]

Have you some information to share on recent reliability to support that comment. It's a few weeks now since there have been any adverse reports, which usually means things have settled down, but "is continuing" would suggest that things are still not all well.

I have got some figures going back several weeks now which I will put here when I have time. If RTT is to be believed then the only train failure causing a cancellation since the fire extinguisher incident was a door problem last Monday which knocked two trains out (ie a trip to Bedford and return). The service in general on the Marston Vale line appears to be dreadful with cancellations left right and centre due to other issues.

 

[keith1879]

I have got some figures going back several weeks now which I will put here when I have time. If RTT is to be believed then the only train failure causing a cancellation since the fire extinguisher incident was a door problem last Monday which knocked two trains out (ie a trip to Bedford and return). The service in general on the Marston Vale line appears to be dreadful with cancellations left right and centre due to other issues.

Just to enlarge on this a bit....since the end of October (approx) there have been about 150 journeys cancelled (EXCLUDING strike days). Of these 14 were due to train faults ....(It looks like 5 separate faults but I'm not 100% sure).

 

[DarloRich]

Ive not heard anything from real drivers on here about the 230s. Just some whinging spotters who don't drive trains. I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

What a silly post. As if the drivers have any idea what the impact of the service failing is like. It isnt them stood in the rain when the train doesn't show. You need to wind your neck in.

As for putting thier lives at risk..........

 

[transmanche]

I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

I'm no fan of the D78 stock, but this is ridiculous.

They've worked on British Rail/Railtrack/Network Rail metals since their introduction to the District line without safety concerns.

 

[talltim]

I'm no fan of the D78 stock, but this is ridiculous.

They've worked on British Rail/Railtrack/Network Rail metals since their introduction to the District line without safety concerns.

Yeah, but they didn’t have self combusting pods slung underneath then...

 

[DarloRich]

Yeah, but they didn’t have self combusting pods slung underneath then...

They dont often catch fire!

 

[Bob Price]

Pacers have caught fire in the paat and in the past few days a 175 has combusted. How many times has a 230 caught fire?

The test fire was down to a malfunctioning third party part (since fixed).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't think it's hyperbole to say that they are rubbish and the situation is beyond a joke.

And I for one agree with you.

 

[dgl]

and of course mentioning the 175's, how often has UK Alstom diesel stock got a bit too hot?
One thing the fire during test proved is that the fire management systems on the 230's work fine.

and as for reliability if the actual trains themselves (not just the service as a whole as that includes staff and infrastructure issues) how do they compare to said Alstom stock?, not including the 458's that Wimbledon have worked their magic on.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I want to hear from the guys who put their lives at risk to drive these contraptions.

Now that might just be slight hyperbole!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The test fire was down to a malfunctioning third party part (since fixed).

Can you clarify your wording of "test fire"? Was that something done under factory test conditions or was that the fire that took place on a running line prior to the eventually cancelled one-year contract on the Coventry to Nuneaton line?

 

[duffield]

Just to enlarge on this a bit....since the end of October (approx) there have been about 150 journeys cancelled (EXCLUDING strike days). Of these 14 were due to train faults ....(It looks like 5 separate faults but I'm not 100% sure).

If less than 10% of cancellations are due to train faults, it makes it sound like the train reliability is a bit of a side-show (not saying it doesn't need addressing, but it's really not what is making the service very poor).

 

[Bob Price]

Can you clarify your wording of "test fire"?

That was the one, fire that took place during the test. Turned out it was a faulty component which they fixed. Lots of tests done since then with no repeat of that problem.

 

[DarloRich]

Conked out this morning. Unconfirmed street word is that there was a fire.

Bit of a shock as since the new year the mechanicals have been reliable.