What is the "perfect" First Class service?

[ASharpe]

All first class carriages needs a few airline style single table seats for those of us who like some isolation.

A person should be dedicated to serving drinks+snacks at all times. Not just trolley runs at irregular intervals with potentially large gaps between them.

And under no circumstances should they ever run out of anything that isn't fresh. It can't be that difficult to find space for another box of biscuits and a couple of cases of beer, wine and soft drinks.

 

[Altnabreac]

Essentials: 2+1 seats, cooked breakfast, gin and tonic.

Anything else a bonus...

 

[OLJR]

Local

I would remove 1ST from the ends of the trains and insert a larger 1ST cabin nearer to the middle of the train - the small cabins are a bit too pokey for my liking. The compartment should have a carpet and antimacassars, as well as either curtains or blinds to shade from the Sun. There should be a bulkhead and closing doors separating the 1ST and STD compartments.

There should be a range of peak and off-peak fares across both single, day-return and open return products.

Regional

There should be at least half a coach of 1ST capacity on all trains and the 1ST compartments should not be at the end of the carriages. The compartment should be configured in 1+2 with a mixture of 4-passenger, 2-passenger and 1-passenger tables. There should be a carpet and antimacassars, as well as either curtains or blinds.

There should be a trolley service with paid soft and alcoholic drinks.

The operator should offer a range of peak, off-peak and advance fares to encourage passengers to upsell from STD to seats that would otherwise go unsold and manage overcrowding.

Intercity

There should be at least two coaches of 1ST capacity on all trains configured 1-2 with a mixture of 4-passenger, 2-passenger and 1-passenger tables. There should be a carpet and antimacassars, as well as either curtains or blinds.

The operator should consider Pullman services with three or perhaps even four 1ST coaches at specific times of the day.

The operator should offer soft drinks for free and consider whether or not to offer free or paid food and alcohol as an open question. Breakfast should include a pair of kippers.

The operator should offer a range of peak, off-peak and advance fares to encourage passengers to upsell from STD to seats that would otherwise go unsold and manage overcrowding.

 

[rick9525]

Comfy seat, plug socket. 2+1 seating, soft drink and a snack.

I get all the above for £15 upgrade on Virgin at the weekend and I find it very good value.

I am not bothered by any higher priced food unless it's a fresh meal cooked on board. I used to enjoy the weekend breakfast on Midland Mainline it was fantastic value. As for microwaved food it's just not worth the extra. For less than a tenner I would prefer carry on food from Pret or M and S.

I wish I could have got the the 15:00 Kings across to Edinburgh back in the GNER days. Very fast service, daylight with excellent scenery north of Newcastle and fresh cooked food ( for purchase). I have traveled a lot on Amtrak or CNL now DB and there is nothing better than great food with a great ever changing view. I tend to find Premier Dining on excursions the way to go for this in the Uk.

 

[route:oxford]

From experience of boarding the Highland Chieftan at Dunblane station on a Sunday lunchtime...

Being welcomed by name "Afternoon Mr Route-Oxford" and a broad smile by the 1st class host as I board the train. Having my coffee cup filled by the host as I put my luggage down.

Those are the things I like.

 

[Howardh]

Being attended to by staff wearing very short Stewart or McDonald tartan skirts and legs covered with shiny black hose.

If they were female that would be an added bonus...

 

[rmt4ever]

What GNER used to offer in the restaurant

 

[stut]

A seat where I am not jostling for elbow or foot space with someone else.

A table where I can lay out what I need to work or relax without jostling for space with someone else.

Power points and reliable wifi.

A properly quiet quiet coach.

Otherwise, as for fares - fill the thing up. Yes, it's lovely to have an empty carriage almost to yourself, but with the right seating, this shouldn't matter - and railways really shouldn't be in the business of shuttling empty carriages up and down the country.

 

[GodAtum]

My perfect 1st class service: being able to get a seat!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I'm paying, a single seat in 2+1 formation so I can sit on my own when travelling on my own, full window alignment (yes, that means you, SNCF, and your awful TGVs), possibly free tea/coffee/water and the fare being 1.5-1.6 of any equivalent Standard fare. That'll do me - if I want a meal I'll pay for it when I want it.

Edit: Though if I do pay for a meal even if it's normal buffet fare it's nice for it to be served on proper crockery.

Neil

 

[EssexGonzo]

An hermetically sealed, electrified, soundproof door to protect us higher class people from the great unwashed in standard,
high efficiency filters to prevent our air being contaminated,
fully reclining leather seats fitted in booths that are personalised to the user and can be fitted and removed depending on the passenger,
a Michelin starred chef to cook what ever was desired,
and some form of airport style walkway completely sealed to the train door so we don't then have to mix with the unwashed when leaving the train to be picked up by the chauffer.

Also a carriage for our butlers with a direct telephone link to my seat should I need his services.

Use of the royal train would also be considered.


But really, Comfortable seats, Power and WiFi, free drinks (not necessarily alcoholic but at least tea/coffe and juice/coke) and a decent freshly cooked meal at lunchtime/tea and breakfast in the morning (choice of cooked or cereal with fruit).

Very good.

The thing is, some aren't joking about mixing with the great unwashed. :roll:

In this day and age, on our crowded isle with its creaking infrastructure, you have a choice to make based on compromise when wishing to take a medium to long-distance journey.

If you want relative speed and someone else to drive - take the train and put up with the lower, unworthy classes - even in *sharp intake of breath* FIRST CLASS!

If you want privacy, more comfort and peace & quiet - drive yourself. But expect to be (only slightly, in my view) more tired at the end of the journey. Of course, it may take you longer but not always - Shenfield to Bolton by train is 3h39m to 3h59m whereas in the car I can rely upon 3h45m at a weekend driving legally. You can play loud music, stop for better food at any time, smoke, fart and not have to share your space with some disease-ridden peasant.

If you haven't got a car, re-purpose all the money you're spending on £300 flexible tickets and you'll soon have a very nice one indeed and some fossil-derived fuel to put in it.

Simple.

Oh, and, get over yourselves.

 

[Class83]

If I'm paying, a single seat in 2+1 formation so I can sit on my own when travelling on my own, full window alignment (yes, that means you, SNCF, and your awful TGVs), possibly free tea/coffee/water and the fare being 1.5-1.6 of any equivalent Standard fare. That'll do me - if I want a meal I'll pay for it when I want it.

Edit: Though if I do pay for a meal even if it's normal buffet fare it's nice for it to be served on proper crockery.

Neil

A 1.5-1.6x fare multiple probably barely covers the lower seating density in a 1st class carriage, if the rest of the train is full then it would be poor economics for the TOC.

 

[Deerfold]

If I'm paying, a single seat in 2+1 formation so I can sit on my own when travelling on my own, full window alignment (yes, that means you, SNCF, and your awful TGVs), possibly free tea/coffee/water and the fare being 1.5-1.6 of any equivalent Standard fare. That'll do me - if I want a meal I'll pay for it when I want it.

Edit: Though if I do pay for a meal even if it's normal buffet fare it's nice for it to be served on proper crockery.

Neil

Caught 1st class Leicester to London last night (2024 ex-Leicester).

Very disappointed. Next to no luggage space - I had a small suitcase (easily cabin luggage on any airline I've travelled with) and ended up with it jammed between my legs under the table. If I'd have a large one I've no idea where it would have gone. The above-seat shelves were tiny (I'm used to EC) and I felt jammed in on my table. I'm not sure there were enough 1st class seats for those without reservations. As it was the weekend there was nothing apart from the seats to justify the extra price.

I think EMT may have sold too many 1st class seats on that train (I got a "cheap" one but I'm not sure it was worth it, even though I only paid an extra fiver on top of what it would have cost in standard). Certainly glad I was on a cheap advance rather than a full fare - but I'm wondering if it should have been more to make the ambience in 1st a little better.

Are EMT often like this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Caught 1st class Leicester to London last night (2024 ex-Leicester).

Very disappointed. Next to no luggage space - I had a small suitcase (easily cabin luggage on any airline I've travelled with) and ended up with it jammed between my legs under the table. If I'd have a large one I've no idea where it would have gone. The above-seat shelves were tiny (I'm used to EC) and I felt jammed in on my table.

That's bad design on the Voyager/Meridian more than anything. I think there are conduits in the space that should have been used for a sensible size of overhead luggage rack.

Neil

 

[Deerfold]

That's bad design on the Voyager/Meridian more than anything. I think there are conduits in the space that should have been used for a sensible size of overhead luggage rack.

Neil

There didn't seem to be any racks by the door on the way in either. Was the fact I was in the coach with the larger loo related to this?

Have got a voucher from EMT trains today for my next 1st class trip but I'm not sure I'll use it.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm sitting in the quiet first class coach on a Pendolino as I write and it ticks all the boxes.

Nice wide seat, friendly and attentive staff, superb cooked breakfast. No noise, no children.

Perfick.

 

[Jona26]

Anyone remember 'Silver Standard?' Seemed to be the right compromise for Standard full fare passengers without paying full 1st Class tickets.

http://www.srpublicity.co.uk/brs/brs23.htm

Silver Standard was introduced on 1st February 1988 on eight key business trains on the London - Liverpool route. All passengers paying for a full price Standard Class ticket were eligible for “Silver Standard Service”. This included: exclusive carriages, special menus, at seat service, seat reservation and complimentary light breakfast or afternoon tea.

 

[Marton]

Anyone remember 'Silver Standard?' Seemed to be the right compromise for Standard full fare passengers without paying full 1st Class tickets.



http://www.srpublicity.co.uk/brs/brs23.htm

Also on east coast.

 

[jon0844]

Eurostar still has something like this, although it's nothing like as good as it used to be.

 

[telstarbox]

I think hot meals (whether complimentary or for sale) is a reasonable expectation on Intercity First Class and a good way to add value. Tea/coffee/water should be complimentary as the base cost to the TOC is minimal.

I'm doing a rare FC trip for work this week as I have to leave home at 0530 and my return trip is at 1900. I'll get breakfast on the way up and supper on the way home which is ideal for the times I'm travelling and preferable to a station sandwich. I'm sure many regular business passengers such as DaveNewcastle appreciate the convenience.

 

[Amy Worrall]

Comfortable seats, plenty of legroom. A guarantee to get a seat or your money back. (This should be possible —*advance tickets are booked to specific seats, and if the remainder of seats are all taken up, there's a capacity issue that needs to be solved.)

Visible staff presence, to answer questions, check tickets, and offer tea/coffee/water and appropriate catering (sandwiches on commuter runs, full meals on intercity).

Plenty of tables. The pendolinos do this right.

I like the no announcements idea. Perhaps the staff should offer to let you know (personally) when you are nearing your destination. There would need to be enough staff to make this logistically possible.

In fact, if we're fantasising, how about staff to help you board if you have luggage? They help you stow your cases in an appropriate place (there should be sufficient luggage space so it doesn't have to go by your knees), and make sure to reunite you with it at your destination.

 

[dcsprior]

I only travel 1st long-distance, for me EC already ticks almost all of the following boxes:

• Seats which can be reclined, in a 2+1 layout
• Table at every seat, with enough space to open a laptop (with the screen angled as you'd like - something not possible in most std class airline-style seats) and still have room for a cup/glass/phone alongside
• Curtains or window blinds
• Fares no more than £25-30 more than flying (i.e. no more overall for someone travelling town-centre to town-centre) - the train is better in terms of comfort, but worse in terms of journey time, so the same overall cost seems about right.
• Food and drinks available - wouldn't have to be included so long as it isn't charged at a premium compared to buying something of a similar quality somewhere other than a train
• 1 mains socket and 2 USB power outlet per seat
• Wi-fi if the route doesn't have decent 3G/4G for the customers' own equipment
• Friendly staff, preferably working the same trains every week

 

[Marton]

Agree.

The three EC 1+1 on Mk IV are even better. Sitting in one as I write.

Also China/Glass. FGW pare cups are an abomination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Comparing the price with flying is hard as the pricing models differ somewhat...

 

[Butts]

I had a journey from Falkirk to Bradford last Friday Evening that involved the use of First Class on four different trains with three operators.

First part of journey Falkirk High to Haymarket on Scotrail. After correctly guessing the trolley would be in the front half of the train boarded the appropriate carriage. Free Edinburgh Evening News plus complimentary cup of coffee and flapjack. - impressive for a journey of less than 30 mins. Get the wrong end of the train and you would get sod all - position of the trolley is everything.

Second part East Coast Haymarket to York on the old EMT Set - I much prefer the other varieties. I was on a "2" with someone till Newcastle when I blagged a "4" to myself. A couple of Scotches, Food and snacks after Edinburgh and Newcastle. It would be nice if they followed Virgins "in and out habit" with the booze. Space is everything, as soon as I got the "4" I was content - I hate sharing tables.

Third part Trans Pennine Express from York to Leeds - the worst of the three operators no refreshments and the 1st Class "Luggage area" was full of noisy students-no guard appeared to turf them out.

Fourth part East Coast from Leeds to Bradford HST virtually empty to the end of it's run but a "4" to myself. No refreshments offered.

To sum up my views on what is important in 1st Class

1. Space - preferably a "4" to myself

2. Complimentary newspapers, refreshments and snacks on a regular basis - particularly alcohol.

3. As cheap as possible

And no I am am not in the "1st Open Club"

 

[scotsman]

All first class carriages needs a few airline style single table seats for those of us who like some isolation.

A person should be dedicated to serving drinks+snacks at all times. Not just trolley runs at irregular intervals with potentially large gaps between them.

And under no circumstances should they ever run out of anything that isn't fresh. It can't be that difficult to find space for another box of biscuits and a couple of cases of beer, wine and soft drinks.

1. No rest for the wicked!

2. There's only so much space on board. What you've just listed is maybe 25kg of stock.

 

[Butts]

1. No rest for the wicked!

2. There's only so much space on board. What you've just listed is maybe 25kg of stock.

Spoken like a true East Coast Steward

Obviously the explanation for the paucity of toast and whisky on offer sometimes, those loaves of bread and miniatures take up a lot of space :roll:

 

[Jonfun]

Spoken like a true East Coast Steward

Obviously the explanation for the paucity of toast and whisky on offer sometimes, those loaves of bread and miniatures take up a lot of space :roll:

He's got a valid point about space - you are quite limited with what you have to work with, but it's about making the most of the space that is available. If you're consistently running out of things then more need to be held on board, but you don't want to be leaving a significant excess of stock (especially high value things like alcohol) on board overnight - or worse, perishable items left wasted - so it should be about getting that balance.

Generally speaking, once you've returned a couple of hundred brown bags, cutlery packs, excess cups, napkins etc you could find room for things.

 

[Butts]

He's got a valid point about space - you are quite limited with what you have to work with, but it's about making the most of the space that is available. If you're consistently running out of things then more need to be held on board, but you don't want to be leaving a significant excess of stock (especially high value things like alcohol) on board overnight - or worse, perishable items left wasted - so it should be about getting that balance.

Generally speaking, once you've returned a couple of hundred brown bags, cutlery packs, excess cups, napkins etc you could find room for things.

The problem seems to me that they are inflexible when it comes to showing any sign of initiative.

You pull into a station low on stock, Rail Gourmet is closed why not borrow something off another Service if their is one there

Again I would ask how they account for The Spirits in East Coast First Class when the usage is variable and not individually attributed to any one person or ticket ?