What is the point in London Overground serving Watford Junction?

[dan_atki]

Even London Underground ticket offices that sell NR tickets and Railcards, (eg Farringdon), cannot refund or excess the orange tickets, and the same with the pink and NR offices.

Just as an aside here because I'm very intrigued by this.

How exactly would a NR served station with an LU ticket office such as Farringdon go about issuing a railcard? I'm assuming they have neither the stock nor the system needed to do so - is this a correct assumption?

 

[Mojo]

How exactly would a NR served station with an LU ticket office such as Farringdon go about issuing a railcard? I'm assuming they have neither the stock nor the system needed to do so - is this a correct assumption?

I don't know but would assume that is the correct case. Bear in mind though that there are a number of smaller NR ticket offices that can't do Railcards either as they are staffed by a member of staff with an Avantix rather than a proper computer and printer.

 

[Merseyrail]

Surely it would be more sensible for TFL to extend the Travelcard to call at the final station on one their own lines. Afterall, looking at the map, it litterally is only ONE single stop outside of the regualar zones.

We had a similar situation on Merseyside where the Merseyrail trains ran out to Chester and Ellesmere Port in the south and Ormskirk in the north. For years the Merseytravel passes weren't allowed outside of the area but sometime after the millenium they allowed an extension of the passes and all zone Saveaways to be used to the above stations and everyone was happy!

 

[Mojo]

Surely it would be more sensible for TFL to extend the Travelcard to call at the final station on one their own lines. Afterall, looking at the map, it litterally is only ONE single stop outside of the regualar zones.

They have extended the Travelcard to Watford Junction, you just need to have the correct one...

 

[yorkie]

They should call it Zone 10 and ALL machines should offer the option of all combinations including 1-6, 1-9 and 1-10 etc!

 

[dan_atki]

I don't know but would assume that is the correct case. Bear in mind though that there are a number of smaller NR ticket offices that can't do Railcards either as they are staffed by a member of staff with an Avantix rather than a proper computer and printer.

ooo, unequipped NR ticket offices eh? I really still should ask a guard what the protocol is if I turned up at a station to find it couldn't issue a railcard (shut/technical reason/etc) but wanted to travel on it immediately...

I guess the answer is they give you authority to travel on their train but to get it and a ticket for the entire journey at the interchange/destination which wouldn't be good if neither of those could do it either (or were shut too!). Surely they wouldn't want me having a free ride...!

I wondered if this was the same on LU stations where you'd be getting an NR train out of it - ticket office gives authorisation to allow you through the gates and then you buy railcard and ticket later in the journey. That is until Daniel's post above leads me to believe LU can actually issue railcards!

 

[glynn80]

They should call it Zone 10 and ALL machines should offer the option of all combinations including 1-6, 1-9 and 1-10 etc!

It is actually internally recognised as Zone 10 within TfL.

In these minutes of a meeting between London Travelwatch and TfL, Zone 10 is actually referred to on the record at the top of page 3 (http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3166/get).

 

[Gavelex]

they do not sell 1-9w tickets (At the machines at least).

Yes they do.

 

[Daniel]

Just as an aside here because I'm very intrigued by this.

How exactly would a NR served station with an LU ticket office such as Farringdon go about issuing a railcard? I'm assuming they have neither the stock nor the system needed to do so - is this a correct assumption?

I had been taught that certain stations with NR there could issue railcards from the LU office. Looking into Farringdon, (which I am almost certain was used as an example), I believe they have an NR office within the same ticket office, (if that makes sense), so the facilities would be available to LU staff care of the NR staff. However, having only worked in LU only offices myself, I am not 100% on this. My apologies if I give out wrong info, but I am pretty sure it's what I was taught!

Surely it would be more sensible for TFL to extend the Travelcard to call at the final station on one their own lines. Afterall, looking at the map, it litterally is only ONE single stop outside of the regualar zones.

I believe the reluctance to include Watford Junction in the numbered zones stems from that, if it were done, a higher percentage of the money from 1-W tickets would go to National Rail. A 1-W ticket is valid on London Midland services, including those which are non-stop Watford J-Euston. I am sure LM probably wouldn't want more people on their trains unless they gain a fair bit of money, as they are quite overcrowded as it is during the peaks. I think this is why there is a separate fare for zone W on a Z1-W anyway, to cover somewhat the money going to NR.

It is actually internally recognised as Zone 10 within TfL.

In these minutes of a meeting between London Travelwatch and TfL, Zone 10 is actually referred to on the record at the top of page 3 (http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3166/get).

I've never seen or heard of it referred to as Zone 10 internally. Most staff seem to forget about zone W, (if they remember they go past 6 now)!
I will also say, don't forget, London TravelWatch is not part of TfL, they are independent.

 

[glynn80]

I've never seen or heard of it referred to as Zone 10 internally. Most staff seem to forget about zone W, (if they remember they go past 6 now)!
I will also say, don't forget, London TravelWatch is not part of TfL, they are independent.

No the link I posted above, was to minutes of a meeting between London Travelwatch and TfL.

The statement made regarding Zones 7, 8, 9, and 10, was one made by a representative of TfL when discussing problems with inherited FASTIS ticket machines (from Silverlink), that were located at stations north of Harrow & Wealdstone.

 

[Daniel]

Fair enough - my mistake. I apologize for misunderstanding you, however I do still comment on the fact that it is not commonly referred to as zone 10 by staff

 

[will1337]

What I can't understand is why I can't buy a Zone 1-9/1-9+W Travelcard from a NR station in Zone 1-6.

 

[glynn80]

What I can't understand is why I can't buy a Zone 1-9/1-9+W Travelcard from a NR station in Zone 1-6.

You can actually buy Zones 1-9 Travelcards and Zones 1-9+W Travelcards from any NR ticket office, it is just they are issued slightly differently to those Travelcards only valid within Zones 1-6.

Zones 1-9 Travelcards are issued from a respective station in Zones 1-9. For example if I walked up to Clapham Junction SWT ticket office and requested a Zones 1-9 Travelcard, the ticket would be issued from a station in Zone 9, such as Amersham, to ZONE R1256 LONDN, with the route as AAA ZONES R789. If I wanted a Zones 1-9+W Travelcard, this would be issued from Watford Junction in exactly the same way described above.

The FRPP explains this as such:

Additional Zones 7, 8 and 9 and Travelcards from Watford Junction

Transport for London (TfL) also issue Travelcards for Zones 7, 8 and 9 for journeys to/from the following London Underground Metropolitan Line and London Overground stations:

· Zone 7: Croxley, Watford Met, Rickmansworth, Chorley Wood and Carpenders Park

· Zone 8: Chalfont & Latimer, Bushey and Watford High Street

· Zone 9: Amersham and Chesham

Travelcards issued by National Rail for these stations are issued to London Zones 1-6, but have a route indication which shows the additional availability in Zones 7, 8, 9.

Watford Junction is itself outside Zone 9, but Travelcards with the origin ‘Watford Junction’ are also issued to London Zones 1-6 and the route showing additional availability in Zones 7, 8 and 9.

(Emphasis added personally)

 

[Reddog785]

Watford Junction is outside the Transport for London zonal area. Special fares apply.

 

[bengley]

Watford Junction is outside the Transport for London zonal area. Special fares apply.

We've gathered that, thanks.

 

[clagmonster]

Thanks very much for that excerpt Glynn, it certainly answers my questions about zones 1-9. The one thing that still trobles me is that the Watford Jn travelcard seems to act as an out boundary day return from Watford Jn to boundary zone 9, and not a travelcard for zones 1-W (in practical terms, the BR issued ticket would allow me to start and/or finish my travel at Watford Jn without visiting in between, but the LUL issued ticket would allow me to go to Watford Jn as many times as I like). Is this actually the case?

 

[MCR247]

Watford Junction is outside the Transport for London zonal area. Special fares apply.

Well done, you've developed the skill of skipping to the last page.

 

[bengley]

Pah! I went to the station today and the travelcard for a CHILD with the watford junction extension is £6.70. For a child? Outrageous!

 

[VirginTrainFreak]

I was at Watford junction today and was refused entry through the barriers with a zone 1-9 Underground ticket.

They shouldn't serve Watford Junction if people can't even use their tickets there.

The woman from London Midland was quite rude to me too.


Plus I thought that with LOROL winning the Silverlink franchise, they were meant to be extending the use of Underground tickets to Watford High Street and Watford Junction.

was the lady a oldish lady with statio managers badge on ?

 

[bengley]

was the lady a oldish lady with statio managers badge on ?

Nope. She was young(ish) maybe in her 40s and overweight.

 

[37401]

was the lady a old-ish lady with station managers badge on?

Was she the one you was telling me about, the one that kicked you off for giving hand signals to drivers? (the "look at me, do a horn" signal)

I think its unfair what happened to you however, I remember you telling me.

 

[paul1609]

Just as an aside here because I'm very intrigued by this.

How exactly would a NR served station with an LU ticket office such as Farringdon go about issuing a railcard? I'm assuming they have neither the stock nor the system needed to do so - is this a correct assumption?

Not tried Farringdon but West Brompton issued a West Brompton (LUL) to Arundel ticket with Forces discount on the normal national rail tickets so I think it should in theory be able to issue a railcard.

 

[Tom C]

AAA ZONES R789

Accompanied, Animals and Articles????

Bizarre route that!

 

[glynn80]

Accompanied, Animals and Articles????

Bizarre route that!

Was just browsing the FRPP for separate issue and found the answer to Tom C's question above.

AAA in this context (and also used often on some Dual Availability Season Tickets) apparently stands for "Also Available At".

 

[Waddon]

I believe that because Watford Junction is not in the Greater London area, services to there are not funded by whoever funds London Transport, thats the same reason given why building the Met link into Watford Junction is taking so long, because TfL don't want to pay for it as it's outside their funding area.

p.s. On a Watford Junction-related issue, does anyone know why the third rail extends onto the fast WCML tracks for about one train length at one end of Watford Junction station?

 

[87015]

p.s. On a Watford Junction-related issue, does anyone know why the third rail extends onto the fast WCML tracks for about one train length at one end of Watford Junction station?

Allows a 313 to enter/exit the DC lines via the down fast, running on DC in/out of DC lines onto the down fast where the voltage changeover can take place. Not used much these days (since the 313s stopped returning to BY and stabling in Watford Yard really).