What is the point of : Buying a ticket

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nuneatonmark

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I travel from Nuneaton to London 2/3 times a week on a combination of Virgin and LM services. A couple of years ago you could pretty much guarantee that you would get your ticket checked on the Virgin service in the morning and also after MKC on the evening LM service. However, nowadays it is rare to get any ticket check at all and despite barriers now being in place on some platforms at Euston, they are rarely in use. How many people are taking advantage of this by paying nothing and why are both companies so incredibly lax on revenue protection?
 
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Islineclear3_1

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1. To allow you to make a journey from A to B on a train...?

2. So that you don't post in the Disputes & Prosecutions forum asking how you can get out of paying a PF or "getting off" a court case by not being in possession of a ticket

Having said that, I traveled to and from Coventry on a Virgin service recently without getting my ticket checked lol
 
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Bromley boy

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I travel from Nuneaton to London 2/3 times a week on a combination of Virgin and LM services. A couple of years ago you could pretty much guarantee that you would get your ticket checked on the Virgin service in the morning and also after MKC on the evening LM service. However, nowadays it is rare to get any ticket check at all and despite barriers now being in place on some platforms at Euston, they are rarely in use. How many people are taking advantage of this by paying nothing and why are both companies so incredibly lax on revenue protection?

The point of buying a ticket is self explanatory. Most people do not want to break the law and may well have careers which would be jeopardised by a criminal record.

Agreed the TOCs could do more to ensure enforcement. I suspect it's a combination of cost and not wanting to put staff into harm's way, although I'm often surprised how often automatic barriers at London terminals and in the suburbs are left open and unmanned, perhaps because a majority of commuters hold season tickets? My TOC do seem to be increasing roving revenue blocks and spot checks on off-peak services which perhaps yields better results.
 

bkhtele

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Ticket checking costs money, more inspectors more fare increases. I favour spot check and then firm action to recover. However perhaps Virgin & LM have the balance wrong.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I never travel without a ticket, but more often than not my ticket isn't checked on Northern or TPE services. I use a zone 2-5 Mcard so the only times my ticket is checked is often at the barriers at Huddersfield. If they're open I still touch in or out so that my use is logged but there's no record of where I've travelled to or from. That said, I was checked just now when entering the pub at Dewsbury from my Northern service from Batley. I look forward to guards hopefully being issued with smartcard enabled portable ticket machines...
 

rishton82

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I never travel without a ticket, but more often than not my ticket isn't checked on Northern or TPE services. I use a zone 2-5 Mcard so the only times my ticket is checked is often at the barriers at Huddersfield. If they're open I still touch in or out so that my use is logged but there's no record of where I've travelled to or from. That said, I was checked just now when entering the pub at Dewsbury from my Northern service from Batley. I look forward to guards hopefully being issued with smartcard enabled portable ticket machines...

I live in Northern land, but do use Virgin quite a bit as well and about 75% of my trips are not checked. However with the lack of checks I can see way people would take a risk.
 

tony6499

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Try reading some of the threads in the prosecution section of the forum from people who thought they didn't need to buy the correct ticket and the panic they are now in.
 

Flamingo

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Try reading some of the threads in the prosecution section of the forum from people who thought they didn't need to buy the correct ticket and the panic they are now in.

To quote a scummy politician (& apologist for terrorists), "You have to get lucky all the time. We only have to get lucky once."
 

ANorthernGuard

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Ticket checking costs money, more inspectors more fare increases. I favour spot check and then firm action to recover. However perhaps Virgin & LM have the balance wrong.

Not Fare increases just slightly less profit for the shareholders (which could probably be recouped anyway by getting extra revenue in using....Ticket Inspectors!
 

whoosh

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Probably the same point as paying at a self checkout at a supermarket, even though no-one's looking most of the time. So as not to be a thief.
 

tony6499

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It is always surprises me how people assert that they are honest people and would never break the law still think that not buying the correct ticket for their journey is not dishonest and breaking the law.
 

al78

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It is always surprises me how people assert that they are honest people and would never break the law still think that not buying the correct ticket for their journey is not dishonest and breaking the law.

They have probably got the idea that it is a victimless crime, the train was going there anyway so it doesn't cost any more to have them on board, ticket or not. I am never surprised by the stupid attempts people come out with to try and justify the unjustifiable. It is cognitive dissonance at work, they like the idea of getting something for nothing but don't like to think of themselves as a bad person, hence the attempt to claim what they are doing is ok :roll:.
 

Antman

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They have probably got the idea that it is a victimless crime, the train was going there anyway so it doesn't cost any more to have them on board, ticket or not. I am never surprised by the stupid attempts people come out with to try and justify the unjustifiable. It is cognitive dissonance at work, they like the idea of getting something for nothing but don't like to think of themselves as a bad person, hence the attempt to claim what they are doing is ok :roll:.

Yes I think that just about sums it up and of course some TOC's make it so easy, just one random example at Bromley South the other evening two quite smartly dressed ladies going through the open (as usual!) ticket gates and one is looking in her purse for her oyster and the other one says "don't bother, just save your credit, nobody ever checks" and she's right, they don't:cry:
 

TH172341

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Just a point of view here - I've noticed whilst using Northern/Transpennine that ticket checks by the train guard is a virtual guarantee - very proactive and thorough guards.

However, London Midland seem to be get lazier in this respect - on the Snow Hill lines the guards I find are rarely coming round to check. It is disappointing that this is the case when really there isn't an excuse not to.
 
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Essexman

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I had my ticket checked three times by Greater Anglia revenue inspectors between Stratford & Clacton and back yesterday. On none of the occasions did they ask to see my Network Railcard. Guards very rarely ask but I would have thought hat ticket inspectors would.
 

nuneatonmark

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I wouldn't think of travelling without ticket, but my point was more about how the lack of ticket checking must encourage people to flout the law and result in decreased revenue. Surely tickets should be checked regularly?
 

exile

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Similar arguments can be advanced for obeying traffic regulations (speeding, parking) but many people don't. The inconvenience of sticking to the law seems to outweigh the fear of being caught. Some people view buying train tickets in the same light.
 

Mugby

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Since the start of this year, I've seen an XC RPI and an EMT RPI.

Is this a new thing for those TOCs?
 

Andrew1395

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Euston 8-11 at 19.00 today. No staff gates left open, no gates at Bushey. Surprised anyone touched in or out with their Oyster
 

snail

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Just a point of view here - I've noticed whilst using Northern/Transpennine that ticket checks by the train guard is a virtual guarantee - very proactive and thorough guards.
I'm not sure about the second part. I don't travel every day so buy Off-Peak returns. The last 2 days the return portion - valid for a month - was checked but not cancelled in any way.
 

al78

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Yes I think that just about sums it up and of course some TOC's make it so easy, just one random example at Bromley South the other evening two quite smartly dressed ladies going through the open (as usual!) ticket gates and one is looking in her purse for her oyster and the other one says "don't bother, just save your credit, nobody ever checks" and she's right, they don't:cry:

I agree it is easy on some journeys to avoid paying a fare, anyone travelling directly from a station without ticketing facilities or barriers to Redhill for example, where there is a convenient exit on platform 3 without a barrier. I'm surprised at this, as I would have thought it would be straightforward to barrier the rear entrance/exit to Redhill station.

I think it is easy to get away with it on journeys late enough in the evening too/from stations that shut overnight, and so are unstaffed beyond a certain time with the barriers left open (e.g. Horsham).
 

Antman

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I agree it is easy on some journeys to avoid paying a fare, anyone travelling directly from a station without ticketing facilities or barriers to Redhill for example, where there is a convenient exit on platform 3 without a barrier. I'm surprised at this, as I would have thought it would be straightforward to barrier the rear entrance/exit to Redhill station.

I think it is easy to get away with it on journeys late enough in the evening too/from stations that shut overnight, and so are unstaffed beyond a certain time with the barriers left open (e.g. Horsham).

Yes it is crazy to leave that exit at Redhill ungated and defeats the whole purpose of the gates at the main entrance.
 

All Line Rover

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I experience a ticket inspection, either at the departure or arrival station or on-board, for the majority of long distance journeys I make with Virgin Trains. I now find it unusual not to be checked. VTWC's revenue protection strategy is, generally, fine, although a number of the ticket inspectors at Euston lack an adequate knowledge of ticket validities, and ticket inspections in first class are not quite as diligent as I would like (first class hosts should check tickets when the guard does not have the opportunity - it's not as if there aren't enough of them).
 

Deepgreen

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Yes it is crazy to leave that exit at Redhill ungated and defeats the whole purpose of the gates at the main entrance.

The whole operation of Redhill station is a disgrace and the local management appear to be utterly unconcerned about it. On occasions when my season ticket has failed to work the gates, I have just been waved through without a check, despite it being a quiet time and no queues. The open entrance to platform 3 is a farce - I can't think of another station that is as busy where such an obvious ticketing 'hole' exists.
 
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paddlesnap419

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I experience ticket inspection on a regular basis, on GWR and ATW, but not very often on XC. I'd say at least 75% of my journeys are checked by a guard, and it's very rare that I exit a station and the barriers are not in use, unless it's very late at night. Even so, within the last few months the barriers at Cardiff Central seem to be in use sometimes as late as 10:30pm. So it would be very difficult for me to get away with not buying a ticket. I don't think I've ever come across a Revenue Protection Inspector, though.
 
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