What level of antisocial behaviour exists on your tram network?

[Treas]

It seems here in Manchester there’s a news article every couple of days about violence on the Metrolink, do others suffer just as bad?

 

[NSE]

Only use the Croydon Trams on a regular basis and I don’t witness much. No more than you get in and around all London public transport. A bit of loud drunkenness and the occasional squaring up (that was at a station though and came to nothing). See a bit of vandalism here and there but I’ve never seen it happen, just the resulting damage.

I’m a 6ft male weightlifter though so generally left alone by youths. A lone woman/pensioner may have different experiences.

 

[duncanp]

I haven't witnessed much anti social behaviour on the West Midlands Metro, but incidents do occur.

Earlier this week a tram conductor and some passengers were assaulted near West Bromwich.

 

[johnnychips]

Never seen it on Supertram, perhaps I’ve been lucky.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems here in Manchester there’s a news article every couple of days about violence on the Metrolink, do others suffer just as bad?

The Oldham/Rochdale Metrolink line was one that ASB was a particular problem upon last year or so, but I am not sure if matters have improved on there now.

 

[Mojo]

I haven't witnessed much anti social behaviour on the West Midlands Metro, but incidents do occur.

Never seen it on Supertram, perhaps I’ve been lucky.

I suspect these networks will do better than others due to the presence of conductors on board the vehicles.

Metrolink will probably suffer also due to many of the stations (primarily the ex-BR stations) being relatively isolated from street traffic (up flights of stairs or within cuttings), rather than networks like Nottingham where the Tramstops are more visible from the street.

I must admit, I don’t live in Manchester, so cannot comment as a regular traveller, but in my limited experience antisocial behaviour is extremely common on the Trams and at Tramstops, probably not helped by the open nature of the system and high ticket prices which together encourage mass fare evasion.

 

[Taunton]

Experience since original opening day is that the DLR is singularly free of any such issues. I can't quite explain why, it's not true of the parallel District Line, for example, and it runs to various points on South Eastern inner services, which are regularly quoted as the worst in the country. Likewise during ticket checks it's most unusual to see someone picked up for not having all correct.

It's got all the issues mentioned above, unstaffed and ungated stations, some quite isolated, etc. Why different?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just as a matter of interest, do the police have a grading system for ASB?

 

[43066]

Experience since original opening day is that the DLR is singularly free of any such issues. I can't quite explain why, it's not true of the parallel District Line, for example, and it runs to various points on South Eastern inner services, which are regularly quoted as the worst in the country. Likewise during ticket checks it's most unusual to see someone picked up for not having all correct.

It's got all the issues mentioned above, unstaffed and ungated stations, some quite isolated, etc. Why different?

A visible member of staff on every train? Makes a huge difference in terms of deterrence. Of course having fairly short trains with good visibility along the inside also helps.

My nearest would be Croydon tramlink. It’s not particularly pleasant to travel on, and I don’t use it often. I’ve not witnessed any serious issues when I have done. It caters to a similar demographic to bus passengers and goes through some rough parts of South London, so a fair bit of loud music played from phones by kids etc.

 

[Gostav]

In Manchester often can found that someone threw drink can to the tram.

 

[Busaholic]

A visible member of staff on every train? Makes a huge difference in terms of deterrence. Of course having fairly short trains with good visibility along the inside also helps.

My nearest would be Croydon tramlink. It’s not particularly pleasant to travel on, and I don’t use it often. I’ve not witnessed any serious issues when I have done. It caters to a similar demographic to bus passengers and goes through some rough parts of South London, so a fair bit of loud music played from phones by kids etc.

Don't know what it's like now, but Croydon Tramlink used to suffer a lot in the evenings from physical and verbal abuse, hence the much greater level of officialdom travelling on it then e.g. ticket inspectors mob-handed, sometimes with police back-up. The New Addington branch was particularly prone.

 

[AutoKratz]

Ok so it's not strictly a tram but the TW Metro have had to hire several teams of roving security guards to police the metro the anti-social behaviour has become such a problem.

 

[Drsatan]

I've heard of a 15-year-old boy being mugged on a tram between Croydon and Wimbledon back in the mid 2000s. Apparently muggings and ASB were rife along the Croydon Tramlink. Not sure what it's like now.

In 2006 I was on a tram heading to Wimbledon when a group of RPIs boarded at Dundonald Road. At least 20 teenagers were taken off the tram, presumably because they were travelling ticketless.

 

[duncanp]

Anti social behaviour on trams isn't confined to the UK.

This is one incident, but as the article notes, it is not the only one.

Man tells of 'horrific' experience of lad threatening to beat him up on Luas

He was particularly scared by the lack of help from fellow passengers

www.dublinlive.ie

Man tells of 'horrific' experience of lad threating to beat him up on Luas​

He was particularly scared by the lack of help from fellow passengers

A Luas passenger felt "totally alone" when a young lad threatened to "kick the sh*t out of him" just before lunchtime today.

There have been numerous reports about anti-social behaviour on public transport service across Dublin recently. In the last 18 months, nine Irish Rail staff members have been assaulted in Dublin.

Journalist Charlie Taylor was minding his own business on the Luas when a young man, who was accompanied by two others, threatened to physically attack him. The innocent passenger's situation was made all the worse by the lack of support he got from fellow commuters.

Charlie told Dublin Live: "There were three young lads together. [It] was just the one threatening [me] but in a situation like that you don't know if they would jump in. Main kid looked like he was dying to give [me] a few slaps.

"Felt totally alone and that if they did kick off that I'd be still on my own. Few people said after they were 'ready to intervene if necessary' but I don't believe that."


The yob threatening him and his two mates eventually got off the tram after Charlie was forced to shout at passengers asking them to intervene.

The journalist added that he was "all fine now. A bit shaken but grand. The most scary part of it all was that no one wanted to intervene."

 

[danm14]

This is one incident, but as the article notes, it is not the only one.

The Luas Red Line has had serious problems with antisocial behaviour since it opened in 2004, as has the Green Line to some extent since the extension to Brides Glen in 2010 and especially to Broombridge Station (which before the Luas was already the most notorious railway station in Ireland for antisocial behaviour) in 2017.

 

[Jozhua]

Nottingham trams have been pretty bad for ASB in my experience.

Worst I've seen was a guy going off on a racist tirade towards an asian man.

Lots of drug addicts tend to use it north of the city centre, although the area in general does have a lot of addicts too.

• My partner was on the tram when a mother with her kid admitted she was high on crack.
• I've seen a woman screaming and scratching at the door before running off down an alleyway.
• I had a group of addicts sit next to me eating pasta salad with their bare hands.
• Got off the tram once where half the occupants were heading to a mass deal (fives over here, tens over there!)
• A man who didn't pay his fare was screaming and berating ticket officers - obviously very high.

There was also a guy with a crowbar in his backpack talking about all the robberies he had done recently.

Probably the worst I've seen on any public transport system! The tram seems to be useful for the crackheads due to not needing to pay the driver, so you can get on for free and then just intimidate the ticket inspectors after.

 

[Gostav]

Nottingham trams have been pretty bad for ASB in my experience.

Worst I've seen was a guy going off on a racist tirade towards an asian man.

Lots of drug addicts tend to use it north of the city centre, although the area in general does have a lot of addicts too.

• My partner was on the tram when a mother with her kid admitted she was high on crack.
• I've seen a woman screaming and scratching at the door before running off down an alleyway.
• I had a group of addicts sit next to me eating pasta salad with their bare hands.
• Got off the tram once where half the occupants were heading to a mass deal (fives over here, tens over there!)
• A man who didn't pay his fare was screaming and berating ticket officers - obviously very high.

There was also a guy with a crowbar in his backpack talking about all the robberies he had done recently.

Probably the worst I've seen on any public transport system! The tram seems to be useful for the crackheads due to not needing to pay the driver, so you can get on for free and then just intimidate the ticket inspectors after.

So obviously, the antisocial level that happens on the tram depends on the local law and order situation.

 

[Jozhua]

So obviously, the antisocial level that happens on the tram depends on the local law and order situation.

Pretty much - these issues only really exist between the city centre and around Wilkinson Street P&R. The rest of the network is pretty chilled imo, but then I ride those parts less.

Lots of issues with drugs in North of Nottingham, which is a shame, because the areas are otherwise quite good

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Never seen it on Supertram, perhaps I’ve been lucky.

Wasn't there an issue at one point with tram surfers? Usually grabbing on to the rear wiper arms and standing on the bump pad.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wasn't there an issue at one point with tram surfers? Usually grabbing on to the rear wiper arms and standing on the bump pad.

Have any of these miscreants come to grief whilst indulging in such rank stupidity?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Have any of these miscreants come to grief whilst indulging in such rank stupidity?

Not that I'm aware of but I do remember posters being at stops and on the Supertram stating do not tram surf.

 

[Edsmith]

I use Tramlink in Croydon quite regularly and I've never seen any serious problems, somebody smoking a joint recently near Beckenham Junction is the worst I can think of and he got off when challenged by other passengers.

 

[greyman42]

Not that I'm aware of but I do remember posters being at stops and on the Supertram stating do not tram surf.

People used to do it on Tyne and Wear Metro.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not that I'm aware of but I do remember posters being at stops and on the Supertram stating do not tram surf.

Fairly sure that on Manchester Metrolink, the drivers are able to view CCTV images of what's happening at the rear of the tram.

 

[bramling]

Experience since original opening day is that the DLR is singularly free of any such issues. I can't quite explain why, it's not true of the parallel District Line, for example, and it runs to various points on South Eastern inner services, which are regularly quoted as the worst in the country. Likewise during ticket checks it's most unusual to see someone picked up for not having all correct.

It's got all the issues mentioned above, unstaffed and ungated stations, some quite isolated, etc. Why different?

This is quite an interesting question. Personally I wouldn’t put it down to staff presence, as with DLR trains divided into two or three vehicles it isn’t hard for people to avoid the train captain if desired.

What I would put it down to is the mix of areas DLR serves. Whilst it runs through some areas which certainly might be described as deprived (Shadwell, the southern tip of the Isle of Dogs, Deptford to Lewisham, Woolwich, Poplar to Bow, Beckton itself are the obvious ones which spring to mind, though I might be a bit out of date), it also serves pockets of affluence. It’s always served Canary Wharf, and on top of that one can add stuff like City Airport, plenty of yuppy-flats type developments especially around Limehouse/Westferry, increasingly so the Royal Docks now too, Greenwich which is a major tourist attraction as well as a pocket of affluence, Stratford International with Westfield being a popular attraction for all types of people, various student developments particularly the east end of the Beckton branch, and of course the Excel centre. No doubt there’s more I’ve missed.

All this ensures the DLR carries quite a mix of people, pretty much at all times of day. One can also add that it’s generally fairly busy too, again pretty much all the time. There simply isn’t the opportunity for problem types to dominate, they don’t have a critical mass.

If one compares this to Tyne & Wear, a significant amount of the Metro runs through rough territory. Byker to North Shields is quite bad, including Meadow Well which has always been notorious. Shiremoor to Palmersville isn’t much better, nor is the bit around Regent Centre/Fawdon. South of the river it’s more of the same, pretty much the whole lot south of Gateshead is rough, with specific hotspots around Gateshead Stadium, Felling, Pelaw, Tyne Dock, Chichester, and most of the Sunderland route. To balance this off, there isn’t much on the positive side. Some students around Jesmond/Gosforth, perhaps a bit of posher business from Tynemouth, and that’s essentially that. You could probably make more of a comparison with something like London-Dartford, which is more suburban rough compared to the mix of places served by DLR. Add in that SE Metro runs out to another problem place - Medway - and it’s easy to see why there are more issues. Both SE and T&W also share the “neglected” feel.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

It has already been said but just to add my experience of the West Midlands Metro, there rarely seems to be any ASB of note. I used it mostly at commuter times rather than late at night, for example, which may be a factor in my experience. But, for me, it seems to convey a mix of elderly people going shopping, college students studying in West Brom or Birmingham, and office workers in the smart Jewellery Quarter / Colmore Row parts of the city. Not a mix of people that's likely to cause problems, I would say. Journeys are generally very pleasant and the vehicles themselves generally clean and well presented.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never seen it on Supertram, perhaps I’ve been lucky.

While Sheffield is a gritty looking city (!), my experience of it is that it behaves a bit differently from the larger cities and so ASB in general is probably a bit less likely.

Experience since original opening day is that the DLR is singularly free of any such issues. I can't quite explain why, it's not true of the parallel District Line, for example, and it runs to various points on South Eastern inner services, which are regularly quoted as the worst in the country. Likewise during ticket checks it's most unusual to see someone picked up for not having all correct.

It's got all the issues mentioned above, unstaffed and ungated stations, some quite isolated, etc. Why different?

I do wonder if we're seeing a pattern here.

DLR, Supertram, Edinburgh, Merseyrail: conductors/guards/whatever you call them, relatively little ASB
Metrolink, TW Metro: none, more ASB

What about others?

I don't think Metrolink is helped by running past Piccadilly Gardens which, with its "spiceheads", is an utter hive of it. I'm not totally sure why the Police are not harder on it.

If one compares this to Tyne & Wear, a significant amount of the Metro runs through rough territory. Byker to North Shields is quite bad, including Meadow Well which has always been notorious. Shiremoor to Palmersville isn’t much better, nor is the bit around Regent Centre/Fawdon. South of the river it’s more of the same, pretty much the whole lot south of Gateshead is rough, with specific hotspots around Gateshead Stadium, Felling, Pelaw, Tyne Dock, Chichester, and most of the Sunderland route. To balance this off, there isn’t much on the positive side. Some students around Jesmond/Gosforth, perhaps a bit of posher business from Tynemouth, and that’s essentially that. You could probably make more of a comparison with something like London-Dartford, which is more suburban rough compared to the mix of places served by DLR. Add in that SE Metro runs out to another problem place - Medway - and it’s easy to see why there are more issues. Both SE and T&W also share the “neglected” feel.

Yes, innersuburban Southeastern has a "run down" feel to it that say Merseyrail never had. It really is quite unpleasant. Is it perhaps in a way like graffiti breeds other graffiti? Or would it be worth an experiment with contracting some security guards for a couple of months with one on each train patrolling up and down, maybe checking tickets (even if they can't do any more than ask people to get off and buy one), and if it works consider introducing Southern style OBSs? There is also murmuring going on about DOO with unstaffed stations not complying with the Equality Act because a wheelchair user can't travel on-spec, so it could kill two birds with one stone as it were?

 

[northwichcat]

When I last used it Sheffield Supertram had a more obvious staff presence than any other public transport system in the country. There was a second member of staff, there solely for revenue and customer service purposes. They aren't also driving the vehicle or going off to release the doors.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Yes, innersuburban Southeastern has a "run down" feel to it that say Merseyrail never had. It really is quite unpleasant. Is it perhaps in a way like graffiti breeds other graffiti? Or would it be worth an experiment with contracting some security guards for a couple of months with one on each train patrolling up and down, maybe checking tickets (even if they can't do any more than ask people to get off and buy one), and if it works consider introducing Southern style OBSs? There is also murmuring going on about DOO with unstaffed stations not complying with the Equality Act because a wheelchair user can't travel on-spec, so it could kill two birds with one stone as it were?

Inner suburban southeastern is one of those which is beyond saving, the culture of fare evasion and doing whatever you like with little consequence is very entrenched, I doubt the natives would care about a single security guard. If anything it needs a heavier BTP presence who can actually do something meaningful but that costs money.

 

[philthetube]

When I last used it Sheffield Supertram had a more obvious staff presence than any other public transport system in the country. There was a second member of staff, there solely for revenue and customer service purposes. They aren't also driving the vehicle or going off to release the doors.

Blackpool often beats that with two conductors per tram in the central area and sometimes all the way to fleetwood.