What names would you give to the Overground lines?

[stadler]

Moderator note-split from

New Overground line names progress?

After the flurry of initial publicity , barely any thing has seemed to have been updated. The official maps don't feature the new line names, nor do the disruption descriptions on the tfl website. I haven't seen much at the stations either

www.railforums.co.uk

If i was in charge i would have picked these names for the London Overground lines:

• East London Line - Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace and West Croydon and New Cross (Windrush Line)

• North London Line - Stratford to Clapham Junction and Richmond (Mildmay Line)

• Lea Valley Line - London Liverpool Street to Chingford and Cheshunt and Enfield Town (Weaver Line)

• Ingrebourne Line - Romford to Upminster (Liberty Line)

• Harlequin Line - London Euston to Watford Junction (Lioness Line)

• Goblin Line - Gospel Oak to Barking (Suffragette Line)

These are the only sensible ones i can think of. Some of those names on that list that were considered are awful. They are mostly meaningless names that nobody would understand. You would think that TFL would want line names that mean something and that passengers can easily make a connection to and understand.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If i was in charge i would have picked these names for the London Overground lines:

• East London Line - Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction and Crystal Palace and West Croydon and New Cross (Windrush Line)

• North London Line - Stratford to Clapham Junction and Richmond (Mildmay Line)

• Lea Valley Line - London Liverpool Street to Chingford and Cheshunt and Enfield Town (Weaver Line)

• Ingrebourne Line - Romford to Upminster (Liberty Line)

• Harlequin Line - London Euston to Watford Junction (Lioness Line)

• Goblin Line - Gospel Oak to Barking (Suffragette Line)

These are the only sensible ones i can think of. Some of those names on that list that were considered are awful. They are mostly meaningless names that nobody would understand. You would think that TFL would want line names that mean something and that passengers can easily make a connection to and understand.

I agree, the names have more connection with the routes involved or are names known already.
All TfL have done is rename the lines and the new names only have tenuous links to the routes involved.
I know what North and East are. I actually know where the Lea Valley is even though I do not live or go near there. I expect many more local know where they are.
It is just meddling.

 

[Recessio]

Paralympic line is an interesting option. I thought Olympic line would have made good choice for Stratford to Clapham Junction via Kensington Olympia - but then again perhaps "take the Olympic from Olympia to the Olympic Park" might be a tad overkill...

Interesting that new GBR/RA2 signage going up at stations doesn't appear to be using the new Overground line names, only referring to "Overground". Compare this to Waterloo where the specific Underground lines are named separately.

 

[vuzzeho]

They are mostly meaningless names that nobody would understand. You would think that TFL would want line names that mean something and that passengers can easily make a connection to and understand.

I'm really not interested in reheating this cold debate. But the line names given were given because they were names that meant something in relation to the areas the lines run through. (Lioness = English women's national football team who became European champions at Wembley vs Harlequin = a mall that no longer exists)

Anyway, my conspiracy theory is that the Suffragette Line was chosen because the Huggett Line was the chosen name until the last minute, so they switched to just Suffragette. At first, I thought it would've been because her estate lost interest, but reading this, it seems like TfL wouldn't have wanted to name it after an individual.

 

[boiledbeans2]

The nicknames - Push and Pull, Harlequin made it to the list! But Goblin, ELL didn't.

 

[stadler]

I'm really not interested in reheating this cold debate. But the line names given were given because they were names that meant something in relation to the areas the lines run through. (Lioness = English women's national football team who became European champions at Wembley vs Harlequin = a mall that no longer exists)

Anyway, my conspiracy theory is that the Suffragette Line was chosen because the Huggett Line was the chosen name until the last minute, so they switched to just Suffragette. At first, I thought it would've been because her estate lost interest, but reading this, it seems like TfL wouldn't have wanted to name it after an individual.

Harlequin Line was not named after the shopping centre. It was the other way round. The name Harlequin Line was created by a local commuter in a competition that NSE ran. The shopping centre opened up over four years later and the management liked the name of the NSE railway line and decided to copy it. So the shopping centre was actually named Harlequin Centre after the railway line.

Harlequin Line was a combination of Harlesden and Queens Park which the line serves. It is the same as how the Bakerloo Line was created from Baker Street and Waterloo which the line serves. Especially as it runs alongside the Bakerloo Line i think that the Harlequin Line name works perfectly. Network South East called it the Harlequin Line as did Silverlink in their early days. It was a fantastic name that ought to be revived.

The name Lioness Line is completely meaningless to most people. A lot of people do not follow football and will struggle to understand what it means. A large amount of people will struggle to make any connection between the Lioness Line name and football. Naming a line after football just seems like a very poor choice. Line names should ideally have some geographic meaning to them which helps people to remember them a lot easier.

 

[jon0844]

The name Lioness Line is completely meaningless to most people. A lot of people do not follow football and will struggle to understand what it means. A large amount of people will struggle to make any connection between the Lioness Line name and football. Naming a line after football just seems like a very poor choice. Line names should ideally have some geographic meaning to them which helps people to remember them a lot easier.

It's just a name. People don't need to know how it got its name, or what the name means. If they want to look it up, they can. If they don't, they just know it as that name.

Just as they'd have known it by any other name it had been given.

 

[stadler]

It's just a name. People don't need to know how it got its name, or what the name means. If they want to look it up, they can. If they don't, they just know it as that name.

Just as they'd have known it by any other name it had been given.

No but having a geographic name or a name that has some well known local meaning to it makes it easier to remember. The current six new line names are very hard to remember and i imagine non regular travellers will easily forget which is which. If you chose something more geographic then the name will be easier for people to remember. It might seem a minor thing but i think it really helps.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's just a name. People don't need to know how it got its name, or what the name means. If they want to look it up, they can. If they don't, they just know it as that name.

Just as they'd have known it by any other name it had been given.

OK, it's just a name BUT what was wrong with the old names ?.
TfL have taken it upon themselves to RENAME these lines with less meaningful names.
Not only were the old names often very familiar BUT two did instantly relate geographically to where/what they are (East and North).

It is not progress it is tinkering.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's just a name. People don't need to know how it got its name, or what the name means. If they want to look it up, they can. If they don't, they just know it as that name.

Just as they'd have known it by any other name it had been given.

This. This 100 times over. It's just a name to distinguish a particular service (or group of services) from another.

No but having a geographic name or a name that has some well known local meaning to it makes it easier to remember. The current six new line names are very hard to remember and i imagine non regular travellers will easily forget which is which. If you chose something more geographic then the name will be easier for people to remember. It might seem a minor thing but i think it really helps.

Non-regular travellers don't need to memorise the names of all the lines and where they go. That's literally the whole point. They need to know the bit that's relevant to their journey. Relevant geographical names, like they use on the Underground? Northern line (which obviously serves the southern-most part of the network), District line (which district?), Metropolitan line (huh?), Jubilee line (now you're just being silly...), Central line (which must be the only line that actually serves central London, right?), Circle line (Oh, great! I need to get from Bayswater to Baker Street, so I can just jump on the Circle line train and be there in 3 stops time. Wait. What? What do you mean? I can't do that because it doesn't actually run in a circle? Well if it doesn't do that anymore, why haven't they renamed it the "Used to be a circle but now it's more of a sort of upside down snail shape Line"?)

OK, it's just a name BUT what was wrong with the old names ?.
TfL have taken it upon themselves to RENAME these lines with less meaningful names.
Not only were the old names often very familiar BUT two did instantly relate geographically to where/what they are (East and North).

It is not progress it is tinkering.

TfL didn't refer to any of them by the old names. They referred to the entire service as Overground. Now they've separated mode (Overground) and service groups (the names). Just like the Underground. District line, Circle line, Metropolitan line, Central line, Jubilee line, Northern line - none of them have any useful meaning in a modern day context, they just allow you to identify one service from another - they could be called Dipsy, Barney, Daffodil, Rose, Sparrow and Sycamore; they'd still fulfil the same role of differentiating one service from another and giving you a name to follow on the signs to get to the correct platform and onto the correct train.

 

[Western Sunset]

It was an excellent idea to name the various routes of the Overground. It was needed, to differentiate all that orange on the map into something more meaningful.

But names are just names. "Bakerloo" is probably meaningless to most of its users, but it's easy to say and memorable. It does its job well to describe a section of the Underground. Same with "District", "Central", etc.

What of the new names? Irrespective of their meanings, some are difficult to say. Is it Mild/may or Milled/may, for example? Lionesss Line doesn't have a clear ring to it. Whenever I hear "Weaver", I think of the River Weaver near Runcorn in Cheshire - but that's just me.

So does it matter about the meaning (or not) of the name? Not really. Should the names be clear, distinct and easy to say? Yes. I think some of the new names fail on this point.

 

[Mgameing123]

Paralympic line is an interesting option. I thought Olympic line would have made good choice for Stratford to Clapham Junction via Kensington Olympia - but then again perhaps "take the Olympic from Olympia to the Olympic Park" might be a tad overkill...

Interesting that new GBR/RA2 signage going up at stations doesn't appear to be using the new Overground line names, only referring to "Overground". Compare this to Waterloo where the specific Underground lines are named separately.

Is taking the Victoria from Victoria not overkill?

 

[Tobberz]

I'd personally have numbered the Overground names - but then again, I'd probably do the same to the sub-surface tube. So I can imagine my view is unpopular.

e.g., O1, O2, O3, O4 etc.,

(Then with the sub-surface, I'd number them by service/service pattern (i.e., split up the district line, etc.)).

 

[Western Sunset]

... they just allow you to identify one service from another - they could be called Dipsy, Barney, Daffodil, Rose, Sparrow and Sycamore; they'd still fulfil the same role of differentiating one service from another and giving you a name to follow on the signs to get to the correct platform and onto the correct train.

Actually, flower names would've been a good idea. Take the Tulip Line to South Kenton would've been clear and concise. Not upset anyone or particular groups and, if allied with relevant marking (such as tulip symbols), give clear way-marking.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Actually, flower names would've been a good idea. Take the Tulip Line to South Kenton would've been clear and concise. Not upset anyone or particular groups and, if allied with relevant marking (such as tulip symbols), give clear way-marking.

Multiple different flower symbols would easily get confusing though. And somebody would probably find some symbolism behind some flower and get upset by how "woke" the choice was because they could have chosen Winston Churchill's favourite flower instead. Not to mention the arguments from Lancashire and Yorkshire folk about which colour rose should be used...

And others would still be upset because they've referred to it as the North London Line since 1968 (or whenever) and are stubbornly resistant to change

(For clarity, yes, a healthy dose of sarcasm and cynicism was used when compiling this post)

 

[Wolfie]

OK, it's just a name BUT what was wrong with the old names ?.
TfL have taken it upon themselves to RENAME these lines with less meaningful names.
Not only were the old names often very familiar BUT two did instantly relate geographically to where/what they are (East and North).

It is not progress it is tinkering.

The "old names" were in many cases unofficial and unrecognised other than by enthusiasts.

At least one (East London) referred to a previous tube line which wasn't even half the length of the Overground line.

Having clear line names is progress. If you don't like them well frankly most system users will say tough!

Is taking the Victoria from Victoria not overkill?

Victoria the area took that name from the then new Victoria station which was named after the monarch of the same name. The tube line, which passes through that station, similarly took that name.

 

[Cross City]

Windrush Line - Brunel Line. East London Line is far too vague, most of it is South London and some of it is North London.

Mildmay Line - Olympic Line. Again North London Line is far too vague.

Weaver Line - Agreed with the Lea Valley Line

Liberty Line - Rompminster... obviously!

Lioness Line - Harlequin Line is fine but I'd like to see something representing Hertfordshire. Hart or the Stag Line for example

Suffragette Line - Has to be the Goblin.

I'd personally have numbered the Overground names - but then again, I'd probably do the same to the sub-surface tube. So I can imagine my view is unpopular.

e.g., O1, O2, O3, O4 etc.,

I'd have also done this. You could even give separate designations to all of the branches of each line

O3a/O3b/O3c for all of the Weaver Line branches for example.

Not sure I'd have messed with the Underground branding or nomenclature.

 

[Wolfie]

Windrush Line - Brunel Line. East London Line is far too vague, most of it is South London and some of it is North London.

Mildmay Line - Olympic Line. Again North London Line is far too vague.

Weaver Line - Agreed with the Lea Valley Line

Liberty Line - Rompminster... obviously!

Lioness Line - Harlequin Line is fine but I'd like to see something representing Hertfordshire. Hart or the Stag Line for example

Suffragette Line - Has to be the Goblin.



I'd have also done this. You could even give separate designations to all of the branches of each line

O3a/O3b/O3c for all of the Weaver Line branches for example.

Not sure I'd have messed with the Underground branding or nomenclature.

Most people would assume that anything named after Brunel would be in the South West given his GWR links.

GOBLIN isn't only a no but a hell no. Forget calling a line after enthusiast's nickname. They are bloody entitled enough as it is. In the real world having lived in north London for nearly 40 years l've never heard one person call it that.

 

[Uncle Buck]

They shouldn’t have names, they should have numbers, like the transit systems of virtually every other major city do, and these should be integrated into buses and suburban rail services, just as Paris has Metro Line 3, RER C and Transilien N, etc.

Tube names are sufficiently long-established that it would be pointlessly disruptive to change them, but otherwise trying to give train services names for what, let’s face it, were political reasons is ridiculous.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Windrush > Brunel, The man who built the line in the first place

Mildmay > Olympic, terminates in Stratford where the Olympic stadium is, also serves Kensington Olympia

Weaver > Leaside, after the Lea Valley

Liberty > Rominster, serves Romford and Upminster.

Lioness > Moore, after Bobby Moore who lead the 1966 England team to victory at Wembley where the line serves

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Most people would assume that anything named after Brunel would be in the South West given his GWR links.

Brunel University?

 

[Mr. SW]

I was hoping for "Effra Line" for the South London Line: it's a lost river that ran from Norwood, to the Thames at Lambeth. It's commemorated as Effra Road in Brixton. I also considered "Orient Line" for the Gospel Oak - Barking Line, not because of the football team, just because it's in the east. Another one I considered if the Hall Farm Curve was reinstated that the Lea Valley Line would be split in two and the Eastern section taking the name "Coppermill Line" after a waterway in Walthamstow. Ah, well.

However, before Christmas I had a free moment and I decided to see if I could come up with some alternative themed naming schemes. Here are some of the ideas I came up with:

Firstly: a couple of "serious" ones

London Railway Movers and Shakers
Pearson, Watkin, Selbie, Forbes, Ashfield, Beck.
Comment: I decided against “Yerkes” as he was a bit ‘Hmm’. I also dropped “Pick” as it did not go well with ‘Line’.

Birds beginning with the letter ‘O’ for Overground
Osprey, Owl, Oriole, Oystercatcher, Ouzel, Ortolan
Comment: “Oxpecker” was out. "Ostrich": Hmm.

And a couple of non-serious ones

Medieval English Kings
Henry I, Henry II, Henry III, Henry IV, Henry V, Henry VI
Comment:

Popular musicians
Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick, Tich
Comment: Yes, I know Dave Dee is a single person. Hmm. “Dee Line”

Now, I throw it open it to the floor...What are your ideas?

There must be an overall theme; nothing that can be regarded as possibly contentious issues; no numbers, letters or shapes (too easy); not too obscure and any subject permitted: artists, scientists, sports people, etc.

And if you're really brave, eight names for the proposed Bee Network lines...

 

[Wolfie]

Brunel University?

Touche and a very good point.

I was hoping for "Effra Line" for the South London Line: it's a lost river that ran from Norwood, to the Thames at Lambeth. It's commemorated as Effra Road in Brixton. I also considered "Orient Line" for the Gospel Oak - Barking Line, not because of the football team, just because it's in the east. Another one I considered if the Hall Farm Curve was reinstated that the Lea Valley Line would be split in two and the Eastern section taking the name "Coppermill Line" after a waterway in Walthamstow. Ah, well.

However, before Christmas I had a free moment and I decided to see if I could come up with some alternative themed naming schemes. Here are some of the ideas I came up with:

Firstly: a couple of "serious" ones

London Railway Movers and Shakers
Pearson, Watkin, Selbie, Forbes, Ashfield, Beck.
Comment: I decided against “Yerkes” as he was a bit ‘Hmm’. I also dropped “Pick” as it did not go well with ‘Line’.

Birds beginning with the letter ‘O’ for Overground
Osprey, Owl, Oriole, Oystercatcher, Ouzel, Ortolan
Comment: “Oxpecker” was out. "Ostrich": Hmm.

And a couple of non-serious ones

Medieval English Kings
Henry I, Henry II, Henry III, Henry IV, Henry V, Henry VI
Comment:

Popular musicians
Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick, Tich
Comment: Yes, I know Dave Dee is a single person. Hmm. “Dee Line”

Now, I throw it open it to the floor...What are your ideas?

There must be an overall theme; nothing that can be regarded as possibly contentious issues; no numbers, letters or shapes (too easy); not too obscure and any subject permitted: artists, scientists, sports people, etc.

And if you're really brave, eight names for the proposed Bee Network lines...

Pick line? Half of London believe that it already exists lol.... An absolutely bog-standard shortening of the Piccadilly line.....

 

[SynthD]

Khan manifesto: Overground lines to be named - what would you call them?

Khan has confirmed in his manifesto (pg 35) LO lines will get individual names if (when) he wins the election. He also re-confirms working with the DfT for GN devolution. TfL’s London Overground network has grown considerably over recent years, and to reflect this I’ll launch a programme to...

www.railforums.co.uk

London Overground lines to officially be given names: any guesses on what the names might be?

TfL has allocated £4 million for costs associated with giving the seperate sections of the overground their own names. https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/london-overground-to-be-split-into-separate-lines-61477/ TfL’s annual budget, which has just been released, has now reserved £4 million for...

www.railforums.co.uk

Goblin has line in it, it risks a Battersea Power Station Station situation if it’s treated like all the others.

 

[Railguy1]

The west orbital route could be named the harlequin line I guess?

 

[renegademaster]

I wouldn't because the whole idea that every line has got to have a colour and a separate identity will make the TfL map become unreadable if they ever aquire any more lines from say southeastern.
What should of came about is giving all servives a route number. Crystal Palace - HI could be LO11, West Croydon LO12, Watford DC LO2 etc..

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think I’d name the Goblin the Tottenham & Hampstead or Midland zliney

 

[Peter Sarf]

This. This 100 times over. It's just a name to distinguish a particular service (or group of services) from another.


Non-regular travellers don't need to memorise the names of all the lines and where they go. That's literally the whole point. They need to know the bit that's relevant to their journey. Relevant geographical names, like they use on the Underground? Northern line (which obviously serves the southern-most part of the network), District line (which district?), Metropolitan line (huh?), Jubilee line (now you're just being silly...), Central line (which must be the only line that actually serves central London, right?), Circle line (Oh, great! I need to get from Bayswater to Baker Street, so I can just jump on the Circle line train and be there in 3 stops time. Wait. What? What do you mean? I can't do that because it doesn't actually run in a circle? Well if it doesn't do that anymore, why haven't they renamed it the "Used to be a circle but now it's more of a sort of upside down snail shape Line"?)


TfL didn't refer to any of them by the old names. They referred to the entire service as Overground. Now they've separated mode (Overground) and service groups (the names). Just like the Underground. District line, Circle line, Metropolitan line, Central line, Jubilee line, Northern line - none of them have any useful meaning in a modern day context, they just allow you to identify one service from another - they could be called Dipsy, Barney, Daffodil, Rose, Sparrow and Sycamore; they'd still fulfil the same role of differentiating one service from another and giving you a name to follow on the signs to get to the correct platform and onto the correct train.

TfL could have just used the names people already knew instead of conjuring up a new set of names. It is just because they are their services that they seem to want to name them their way - selfish/isolationist ?.

 

[Wolfie]

TfL could have just used the names people already knew instead of conjuring up a new set of names. It is just because they are their services that they seem to want to name them their way - selfish/isolationist ?.

Frankly your claim that people knew the names you prefer is the issue. Many people outside the bloody insular enthusiast community do not know those names and just referred to the Overground. TfL aren't going to change their minds no matter how much you whinge, deal with it!

 

[Sorcerer]

I've made my thoughts about the new lines known previously so I won't clutter this post repeating them, but this is what I would've named the Overground lines and in my opinion what I still believe they should be called despite there being no chance of a rebranding.

• Windrush Line (Highbury & Islington to Clapham Junction/Crystal Palace/West Croydon/New Cross) - Eastend Line since it predominantly serves the east end. Brunel Line seems a bit too obscure in my opinion.
• Mildmay Line (Stratford to Clapham Junction/Richmond) - Regents Line in reference to running in parallel to the Regents Canal along most of it's journey (I think so anyway, will have to change this one if I'm wrong).
• Weaver Line (London Liverpool Street to Chingford/Cheshunt/Enfield Town) - Lea Valley Line because of geographical relevance while also still being simple and easy to remember as well as generally sounding nice.
• Lioness Line (London Euston to Watford Junction) - Watford Line because it serves Watford and also because I can't think of a better name that has appropriate geographical or historical relevance.
• Suffragette Line (Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside) - Goblin Line can stay cause of familiarity and also because it's not too unlike how the Bakerloo Line was named (Baker Street and Waterloo portmanteau).
• Liberty Line (Romford to Upminster) - Liberty Line actually fits here because it solely serves the Royal Liberty of Havering, giving it historical and geographical relevance and a local feeling for the borough.

I don't think Brunel Line would be a bad one for the East London Line, but I think it'd also be a bit too vague since most people outside of railway enthusiasts wouldn't recognise it's relevance. As for Harlequin Line, I feel like this would be more associated with Harley Quinn thanks to modern pop culture rather than being recognised as a portmanteau of Harlesden and Queen's Park, and frankly I don't want American comic books anywhere near London's transport.

Otherwise I think my suggestions work because they are distinctive, easy to remember, mostly in line with how the rest of London's rail transport network is named, and have geographical and/or historical relevance. That said I would also like the Mildmay recognition to be exercised in the form of a station mural at the nearest Overground station along with maybe a Windrush mural.