What next for the Stourbridge Shuttle?

[Bletchleyite]

The "what would a modern Pacer be like" thread got me thinking - the Parry People Movers won't last forever, what might be next for Stourbridge?

Could one of the ultra-light rail vehicles be used, or should it be converted to an automated people mover?

Any other thoughts? Would a chord be possible to allow it to be served from Birmingham?

 

[Hadders]

A class 230 would be ideal if operating as a shuttle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A class 230 would be ideal if operating as a shuttle.

A single car one could be built perhaps? Another option that just occurred to me is one of the PRMed Welsh 153s (plus one more as a spare) when they are finished with over there.

 

[adamedwards]

Given not far from the University of Birmingham, it should be their test line for any newfangled train they come up with.

 

[Bald Rick]

The "what would a modern Pacer be like" thread got me thinking - the Parry People Movers won't last forever, what might be next for Stourbridge?

Could one of the ultra-light rail vehicles be used, or should it be converted to an automated people mover?

Any other thoughts? Would a chord be possible to allow it to be served from Birmingham?

Electric busway?

More seriously, some form of battery unit I expect. Possibly bespoke, and possibly automatic.

A north chord for direct Birmingham services might be possible technically, but would need land take (from a school playing field), would cause complications with the sidings, and actually not provide much benefit. It wouldn’t help anyone wanting to head south from the town, nor would it help the sizeable population who live near the Junction and would see a reduction in service. Nor would it help me when I want to go to the Bird in Hand near the Junction (excellent pub!)

 

[HST43257]

Another option that just occurred to me is one of the PRMed Welsh 153s (plus one more as a spare) when they are finished with over there.

They used to operate a 153 but I’m pretty sure they could only have 4tph due to being slower (lack of good acceleration?), which is why the Parry People Mover was brought in. I’d suggest an automatic battery version of the 139. It’s a good design and sensible for the route but 2 crew members onboard at one time (driver and guard) are not required. If it can’t be fully automatic, just get the driver to set the train off then check tickets then slow down for the end of the route.

 

[172007]

Make it part of the Midland Metro , carry on out through the the bus station onto the streets. Might be able to tie it up to the new tram extension planned for the Dudley via Round Oak line.

 

[D365]

A single car one could be built perhaps? Another option that just occurred to me is one of the PRMed Welsh 153s (plus one more as a spare) when they are finished with over there.

Why would downgrading to a traditionally driven DMU be necessary? Surely that would increase cost.

I'm confused by the suggestion that anything needs to be changed. Is the shuttle not financially viable in its current form?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would downgrading to a DMU be necessary? Surely that would increase cost.

The PPM is a DMU, albeit a small one with an unconventional method of power transmission and recovery.

I'm confused by the suggestion that anything needs to be changed. Is the shuttle not financially viable in its current form?

The PPMs seem cheaply built and won't last forever, I reckon maybe 10 years in them? The thread was a question about what should happen once they are no longer viable, whenever that may be.

 

[D365]

Another pair of bespoke shuttle units. Absolutely no point in converting to tramway, unless tram-trains end up at Stourbridge Junction and it makes economic sense to take over operation.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A while back there was a thread about broader electrification where someone suggested wiring the branch at 25kv... I'd say there's as much chance of that as there is of me being named the next Secretary of State for Transport.

Some sort of battery vehicle not entirely dissimilar to the existing PPMs (but automated) would seem most likely. Or maybe even conversion to a cable-hauled funicular type system, particularly if a short loop can be fitted allowing two cars to operate using gravity.

 

[DB]

A single car one could be built perhaps? Another option that just occurred to me is one of the PRMed Welsh 153s (plus one more as a spare) when they are finished with over there.

They used to use a 153 - not really ideal with end doors. Something which can load and unload more quickly is best. Not really sure that it needs to be much bigger than the current one, but if it does then two sets of double doors at 1/3 and 2/3.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They used to use a 153 - not really ideal with end doors. Something which can load and unload more quickly is best. Not really sure that it needs to be much bigger than the current one, but if it does then two sets of double doors at 1/3 and 2/3.

Cut-and-shut a single car 150?

 

[Ianno87]

The PPMs seem cheaply built and won't last forever, I reckon maybe 10 years in them? The thread was a question about what should happen once they are no longer viable, whenever that may be.

Presumably also cheap to replace like-for-like!

 

[DB]

Presumably also cheap to replace like-for-like!

Or possibly an updated version with some level of battery use?

Not sure how long something that size would be able to run on a single charge.

 

[py_megapixel]

Cable-hauled tramway? Would certainly be unique!

 

[Sprinter107]

They used to operate a 153 but I’m pretty sure they could only have 4tph due to being slower (lack of good acceleration?), which is why the Parry People Mover was brought in. I’d suggest an automatic battery version of the 139. It’s a good design and sensible for the route but 2 crew members onboard at one time (driver and guard) are not required. If it can’t be fully automatic, just get the driver to set the train off then check tickets then slow down for the end of the route.

Certain times of the day, the 153 worked Town Car did 5 trips per hour.

 

[swt_passenger]

How about an old tube train? The 483s must be ideal...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or possibly an updated version with some level of battery use?

Not sure how long something that size would be able to run on a single charge.

That lightweight railcar is basically an updated version of it, isn't it?

 

[Metal_gee_man]

2 car Class 230/231 battery only with a 10m length of 3rd rail at Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town to charge it. Loads of doors, plenty of acceleration, easy conversion and plenty of spares and units readily available.

 

[DelW]

It can't be much longer than some automated airport shuttles. If there's room for a passing loop at halfway, then a standard airport shuttle system with two cars and a cable loop would enable operation with just one person to check tickets.

 

[Ianno87]

It can't be much longer than some automated airport shuttles. If there's room for a passing loop at halfway, then a standard airport shuttle system with two cars and a cable loop would enable operation with just one person to check tickets.

Although there's not much point it operating more frequently than every 10 minutes, given that is the frequency of the connecting "main line" trains.

 

[superalbs]

A single car one could be built perhaps? Another option that just occurred to me is one of the PRMed Welsh 153s (plus one more as a spare) when they are finished with over there.

How about they mount a cab on top of the roof, that way it could drive either way without a swap, and could go on demand.

 

[py_megapixel]

Here's an extremely bizarre (and serious, I swear) idea - what about DLR B92 stock?

It ticks all the boxes - suitable for quick turnarounds, plenty of wide doors, built from the ground up to be automated, and will be withdrawn within the next decade (but will still be perfectly adequate for a 5-minute back-and-forth shuttle where the passengers barely have a chance to settle into a seat)

Of course, ORR will throw an absolute fit if anyone suggests installing the whopping ¾mile of third rail that would be needed, but presumably the required capacity is small enough that you could convert part of the car to hold above-floor batteries or diesel genset and still have enough room for the passengers.

 

[dgl]

The PPM is a DMU, albeit a small one with an unconventional method of power transmission and recovery.

But is it?, it runs on LPG hence it can't be a DMU it would be an LPGMU!

 

[A0]

Here's an extremely bizarre (and serious, I swear) idea - what about DLR B92 stock?

It ticks all the boxes - suitable for quick turnarounds, plenty of wide doors, built from the ground up to be automated, and will be withdrawn within the next decade (but will still be perfectly adequate for a 5-minute back-and-forth shuttle where the passengers barely have a chance to settle into a seat)

Of course, ORR will throw an absolute fit if anyone suggests installing the whopping ¾mile of third rail that would be needed, but presumably the required capacity is small enough that you could convert part of the car to hold above-floor batteries or diesel genset and still have enough room for the passengers.

I suspect if you went for the DLRs 3rd rail which is bottom contact, raised and totally covered it would be less of an issue. But it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut, when battery units exist now which could easily cover this route.

 

[blue87]

They posted on Twitter last year plans of running up to Brierley Hill, what came of it I don't know. https://twitter.com/SbridgeShuttle/status/1212649919506505733?s=19

 

[DB]

I suspect if you went for the DLRs 3rd rail which is bottom contact, raised and totally covered it would be less of an issue. But it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut, when battery units exist now which could easily cover this route.

How about fitting one with a pantograph, and stringing up a short length of OHL? Are those 750v DC?

 

[MarkyT]

Make it part of the Midland Metro , carry on out through the the bus station onto the streets. Might be able to tie it up to the new tram extension planned for the Dudley via Round Oak line.

Agree with appending it to the Metro if possible, but why go onto the streets just for the sake of it. Stourbridge is a very compact centre and the station is within a few minutes walk from most of it and is part of an excellent bus interchange.

To repeat my question from the other thread:

I've seen but never travelled on the shuttle. Does the existing unit ever get rammed to the extent of leaving passengers behind? Clearly it would only be a comparatively short wait for the vehicle to go and come back again, but the distance is so short that for many people it would probably be just as quick to exit the station and walk into town. This is a generic problem with very small trains on short shuttles.

 

[DB]

I've seen but never travelled on the shuttle. Does the existing unit ever get rammed to the extent of leaving passengers behind? Clearly it would only be a comparatively short wait for the vehicle to go and come back again, but the distance is so short that for many people it would probably be just as quick to exit the station and walk into town. This is a generic problem with very small trains on short shuttles.

Not when I've been on it - but don't think I've done it at peak time. The internal layout is mostly standing so it can fit a reasonable number for its small size.

Incidentally, how did this branch ever survive? Plenty of towns have the main station at least as far from the town centre as Stourbridge Junction is.