My sister just tried to alight at Hamble and the doors only partially opened so she couldn't get off in time and instead had to go on to Netley and come back adding 35 mins to what should have been her short journey from Cosham. The guard said the platform at Hamble is on an angle and so she would needed to have kicked the door to force it open! Surely if there are issues at Hamble customers should be warned in advance and also how does someone elderly get off? In this situation would pulling the alarm be allowed as what if the next station was miles away or if the next train back from the next station wasn't for hours?
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What to do when doors wont open
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WestRiding
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Personally, i would run to another door.
I normally run to another door when this happens, but if you end up being overcarried then a complaint to the guard should get your ticket endorsed for travel back from the next station.
If there are no more trains, or there isn't one for ages, the TOC should arrange a taxi.
I'd also claim delay repay if I was overcarried.
Incidentally, no platform should be foul of opening doors!
If there are no more trains, or there isn't one for ages, the TOC should arrange a taxi.
I'd also claim delay repay if I was overcarried.
Incidentally, no platform should be foul of opening doors!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Presumably "at an angle" means that the track is canted away from the platform so a door would have to open "uphill", not that the door is actually going to foul the platform. This is noticeable on the old slam doors but modern power doors should be able to cope without any problem. Do we know what type of train it was?
It was Hamble and an SWT Pompey-Soton service presumably a 450 as almost everything on that line is except for the stray 159 that I think still runs. It looks up hill from Google.
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Not unheard of Desiros unfortunately. Had it happen at Witley the other day on a 444 which is also on quite a cant. A firm kick opened my door but the adjacent one didn't open. Luckily the people attempting to use that door moved in to the next vestibule where the door was already open.
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No 159s on the line anymore. There is at least one service booked for a 444 though.
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No 159s on the line anymore. There is at least one service booked for a 444 though.
Siemens continued to use air powered doors for the Desiros, whereas Bombardier and Alstom used fully electric doors for their trains. I know Heathrow Connect 360s have doors that sometimes struggle to open on the heavily canted P4 at Southall, but they quite often do that on level track too, which probably points to low air pressure.
Nobody has answered the OP's question fully, i.e. "would pulling the alarm be allowed..".
The simple answer to that is yes, as in there wouldn't be anybody to stop you. As to whether it would be appropriate, well that depends on the person who would otherwise be prevented from alighting. It may in their terms be an emergency if they were trapped so there wouldn't be much defence for a TOC that tried to take the passenger to court. One thing that a court case might do would be to encourage them to fix the problem properly which looking at some of the posts here, seems to be not that rare.
The simple answer to that is yes, as in there wouldn't be anybody to stop you. As to whether it would be appropriate, well that depends on the person who would otherwise be prevented from alighting. It may in their terms be an emergency if they were trapped so there wouldn't be much defence for a TOC that tried to take the passenger to court. One thing that a court case might do would be to encourage them to fix the problem properly which looking at some of the posts here, seems to be not that rare.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I have never, ever heard of someone being taken to court for pulling the cord, however stupid the reason. While a door failure may not be the intention of it, the worst you are going to get is told off.
It's a particular issues on all Desiro units, I'm reliably informed the WC 350 units suffer from it as well. Just pull the passcom, if the train is still a state no harm will be done and more importantly if a door has really failed to open it needs to be examined to make sure it's fit and safe for traffic.
That was my thought too which is why I told her to pull the passcom but technically it's not an emergency once the door shuts again. It used to happen all the time on the Sunday xx54 past Waterloo-Poole/Pompey splitters when only the front 5 could be alighted from at Clapham and those in the back 5 pulled the passcom to stop the train leaving. This does seem a bit of a flaw in Desiros. I'm not blaming the guard here as what could he do except apologise (which he did) but it is pretty poor from a passenger point of view and as the delay was less than an hour she can't even get delay repay for having her journey time more than doubled and being late for work through no fault of her own.
I've seen it myself on the 185s as well; it happened at two stations on the WCML; Penrith and I can't recall the other.
The doors don't pop out all the way; what is seemingly needed is to push the doors out; I saw people trying to pull them apart with no success.
Regarding the alarm, this happened to me once on a Midland Mainline Meridan, door wouldn’t open and there were several people stood behind me, then the beeps came on suggesting the door was shutting as train was about to move. I pulled the alarm, a voice over the intercom said “er, you’ve pulled the emergency cord there”, I replied “yeah the door won’t open and I think we’re about to go”, basically was told to go to another door and that they’d hold the train until we got off using a different door.
I wasn’t as much of a rail user/enthusiast then so I might have some details a bit hazy/wrong now but definitely there was no suggestion that I was going to be fined or even reproached, the “voice” (presumably the guard) just sounded surprised.
I wasn’t as much of a rail user/enthusiast then so I might have some details a bit hazy/wrong now but definitely there was no suggestion that I was going to be fined or even reproached, the “voice” (presumably the guard) just sounded surprised.
scotsman
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185s and 350s on the up at Penrith have this issue, I think it's happened once or twice on the down at Oxenholme too. I imagine it probably happens at Motherwell as well.
mbreckers
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Had an issue on a 380 once, the door I was alighting from was in an open part of the station.
It was also one of times we had the big storms up here a few years ago.
Waiting to alight as normal, finger hovering over the open button. Train stops and door sounder sounds, all normal.
Press button, door starts to open and I start moving out the door.
Suddenly, really strong gust of wind and the door slams shut. In my face.
It really hurt
scotsman
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Did you report that? I'm sure ScotRail and Siemens would be quite concerned by that
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Indeed, though I suspect for that to have happened the OP perhaps started to leave the train before the door was fully open, which is a risky strategy.
mbreckers
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As Neil Williams said in the post below you, I had started to exit the train before the doors had fully opened.
I didnt consider reporting it as it was my own fault tbh
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I thought 380s had electric doors? Re the issues at WCML Stations Motherwell does suffer. Poor design IMO
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Garforth, Yorkbound direction it has known to have happened, however as conductors we are instructed to look out for this to happen. The doors will pop open so far and can clearly be seen from the rear cab.
On any train type, if the doors wont open and you cant get to the next set, pull the passcom. There could potentially be a fault with those doors. Being overcarried is far more an inconvenience than pulling a passcom, and as staff we would rather know about it!
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SpacePhoenix
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Is there anything that Siemens or the TOCs could do, perhaps have higher air presue in the system for stations on a cant?
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
We have been told they are looking into it.....
mike57
Established Member
Also seen it on 185's at Seamer, Malton and Garforth. On one occassion last year a number of passengers were trapped on a busy train at Malton, it was physically impossible to move to the next set of doors due to other standing passengers. They ended up in Scarborough, and were not happy. Unfortunately no one had the presence of mind to activate the alarm. The doors were well jammed , open about 3 inches, and even a well aimed boot to the base of the door failed to dislodge them, which usually works. Of course they closed perfectly so no alarm was raised to the gaurd.
I am suprised there isnt a door open limit switch of some kind, and a door fail to open alarm.
That would be one more thing to potentially fail.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Your described scenario mike57 sounds like a door failure. Garforth the track cants away from the platform which explains why some mechanisms are a little slow but Malton is on the level. Suprised the conductor did not see the doors not open properly as from your description it should have been clear from the outside something was amiss.
Again the pulling of the egress handle would have alerted staff to the problem, but as I often say on this forum "we cannot do anything about it if no one bothers to tell us about it"
Again the pulling of the egress handle would have alerted staff to the problem, but as I often say on this forum "we cannot do anything about it if no one bothers to tell us about it"
On a cl-323 do not hold the outside button in the pressed button as the doors will not open unless the button is pressed and released quickly. If the door doesn't open the first time you press and release, try it again. If it still fails to open, try the next set of doors. Sadly, IME the external buttons on cl-323s are a bit tempremental
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