What would you like to see in the next Great Western Franchise?

[The Ham]

The only logical thing to do is provide more capacity on XC services - which are not creaking at the seams all day, every day between Banbury and Oxford, no matter how often you suggest this is the case.

There do not appear to be many people who look to GWR as a logical option to serve Birmingham. The idea did not even make the top 10 of routes suggested for consideration for adding to the GW franchise in the recent DfT consultation and it only need a couple of mentions in responses to make that list.

Page 39 here

https://assets.publishing.service.g...l-franchise-stakeholder-briefing-document.pdf

What that page does show is that there was a fair degree of support for GWR running London-Oxford-Banbury to Stratford-upon-Avon as Thames and FGW Link used to do.

Which I would agree with - and which is a whole lot more logical than GWR going to Birmingham. There are substantial tourist markets to target along this axis, which was why Network South East created the former service in the first place in the early 1990s.

I don't mind where the GWR services go (or not go) beyond Banbury. In quite happy to change trains there to get to Birmingham or anywhere else.

 

[jimm]

But as I noted when you raised this one somewhere back up this thread last year, the existing GWR services do not connect with anything much at Banbury (e.g. the next trains going north are usually the following XC services from Oxford) and any more GWR services would be locked into similar slots, due to the pathing pattern of XC and freight services along the Cherwell Valley and Chiltern services between Aynho junction and Banbury.

 

[FenMan]

Putting real energy into sorting out 2ph between Reading and Gatwick Airport, as opposed to "it's all too hard".

I get it that Reigate is a problem, but problems are there to be overcome.

 

[Minstral25]

Putting real energy into sorting out 2ph between Reading and Gatwick Airport, as opposed to "it's all too hard".

I get it that Reigate is a problem, but problems are there to be overcome.

I assume by Reigate you mean the level crossing, this is not a problem for 2 train per hour to Gatwick (3 with the stopper). It is other farm crossings and similar that they need to sort (I heard it was 3 issues along the whole route).

If you mean that the half-hourly Southern trains have to sit on a platform for 15 minutes when turning round then that is an issue but solvable

 

[The Ham]

But as I noted when you raised this one somewhere back up this thread last year, the existing GWR services do not connect with anything much at Banbury (e.g. the next trains going north are usually the following XC services from Oxford) and any more GWR services would be locked into similar slots, due to the pathing pattern of XC and freight services along the Cherwell Valley and Chiltern services between Aynho junction and Banbury.

The next train may be the XC service, however the following Chiltern service arrives to Moor Street about 10 minutes later. This is close enough in time that some people would consider the latter service so as to avoid a longer walk at the other end. It would also mean that there was an option of the XC services were running late.

However the big advantage would be that it reduced the number of people on the XC services as if they were just going between the two they could just get the earlier GWR service. Even if the XC services were longer (which I agree they should be, but given the delay in reletting the franchise looks like it could be several years away, maybe even 5 years time, allowing 2 years for the review and for XC's time to come around again and then 18 months for the bids and a further 18 months for additional trains to be delivered) the extra service would allow for a faster stop at Oxford (which would be especially useful when the XC services are running late and when the trains are busy).

Would lots of people use the GWR to get to Birmingham, probably not. However there would probably be enough that people who would use it to make it worth running. Especially if it runs to places such as Stratford.

Not least because it would provide better connectivity to Solihull and Warwick.

 

[greaterwest]

Putting real energy into sorting out 2ph between Reading and Gatwick Airport, as opposed to "it's all too hard".

I get it that Reigate is a problem, but problems are there to be overcome.

I think 3 trains per hour along the route would put strain on the already fragile signalling system the line uses (only 3 signal sections between Wokingham and North Camp, for 5 stations, for example)

The reliability over the last week along the line has been appalling anyway.

 

[jimm]

The next train may be the XC service, however the following Chiltern service arrives to Moor Street about 10 minutes later. This is close enough in time that some people would consider the latter service so as to avoid a longer walk at the other end. It would also mean that there was an option of the XC services were running late.

However the big advantage would be that it reduced the number of people on the XC services as if they were just going between the two they could just get the earlier GWR service. Even if the XC services were longer (which I agree they should be, but given the delay in reletting the franchise looks like it could be several years away, maybe even 5 years time, allowing 2 years for the review and for XC's time to come around again and then 18 months for the bids and a further 18 months for additional trains to be delivered) the extra service would allow for a faster stop at Oxford (which would be especially useful when the XC services are running late and when the trains are busy).

Would lots of people use the GWR to get to Birmingham, probably not. However there would probably be enough that people who would use it to make it worth running. Especially if it runs to places such as Stratford.

Not least because it would provide better connectivity to Solihull and Warwick.

No one in their right mind is going to get a GWR service, then get off at Banbury and wait for a train that has left Reading or Oxford later to call at Banbury and depart, in order to get on a Chiltern service that turns up after that.

Any lengthening of XC's trains may be a way off, but where exactly do you think GWR is going to find any rolling stock from to start sending lots of near-empty trains to Banbury and back?

Any Turbo that can be spared from the Thames Valley is sent west at once and they are not going to waste IETs on this kind of thing.

Any future GWR Stratford-upon-Avon service would be just that - a limited-stop (and limited frequency) train to/from Stratford targeted at tourists - probably only calling at Banbury and Leamington en route, unless line capacity limitations from Hatton to Bearley mean running in what is a Chiltern path to/from Stratford at present, and with no great ambitions to offer options for other journeys.

When the old Thames/FGW Link Stratford service was running it had to form part of a bigger picture between Reading, Oxford and Leamington, as XC was only running hourly on this axis until the last few years of the service's existence and Chiltern was still developing its West Midland services amid the early Evergreen upgrade work.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Previously it was posted that the franchise was likely to be extended by 2 years without a tender, is this still the case? If so, would there be any likelihood of getting any new DMUs/bimodes to replace the last of the Sprinters?

 

[Master29]

Picking your own seats on their website, like Virgin and LNER.

 

[jimm]

Previously it was posted that the franchise was likely to be extended by 2 years without a tender, is this still the case? If so, would there be any likelihood of getting any new DMUs/bimodes to replace the last of the Sprinters?

Given all the money that has just been sunk into making the 150/2s compliant for disabled access, there's no realistic chance of any replacements for them until after a 2022 franchise round, or whenever there actually is a full-on contested GW franchise bidding process again.

And by that stage you would probably be looking at complete fleet replacement of all the 150s, 158s and Turbos, which would all be about 30 years old or more.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I would like to see:

• An hourly service between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford (possibly merging with EWR)
• An hourly service between Stratford-upon-Avon to London Paddington service by extending Banbury services
• An Hourly service from Okehampton to Exeter
• An extension of Cardiff-Portsmouth services to Swansea
• An extension of Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare to Gloucester
• Introduction of a new Bishops Lydeard to Taunton service

 

[The Ham]

I would like to see:

• An hourly service between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford (possibly merging with EWR)
• An hourly service between Stratford-upon-Avon to London Paddington service by extending Banbury services
• An Hourly service from Okehampton to Exeter
• An extension of Cardiff-Portsmouth services to Swansea
• An extension of Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare to Gloucester
• Introduction of a new Bishops Lydeard to Taunton service

All good options.

I do wonder if GWR could provide the staff and extra rolling stock required to extend the Waterloo - Exeter services to Okehampton as that could work well.

In that it wouldn't alter the platform usage at St David's and would allow through travel across Exeter.

 

[Aictos]

I would like to see:

• An hourly service between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford (possibly merging with EWR)
• An hourly service between Stratford-upon-Avon to London Paddington service by extending Banbury services
• An Hourly service from Okehampton to Exeter
• An extension of Cardiff-Portsmouth services to Swansea
• An extension of Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare to Gloucester
• Introduction of a new Bishops Lydeard to Taunton service

1. Instead of a Bristol to Oxford service why not balance out the existing terminators at both Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa by having ALL existing Gloucester terminators continue to Cheltenham Spa?

Especially as it's a major Cross Country hub you could make travel connections even easier by doing this.

2.

I would amend the second proposal and instead extend the existing Didcot Parkway to Banbury service to Stratford-upon-Avon instead which keeps the Class 387s between Didcot Parkway and London Paddington for both performance and ecological reasons while the Class 166/165 can run onto Stratford-upon-Avon and Didcot Parkway which is a better use of the Class 166/165s.

3.

This should def go ahead but as part of the wider Devon Metro network ie interwork with Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton services.

4.

Again this could happen but then again could not Transport for Wales fill in any service gaps from Cardiff Central westwards?

5.

Instead of extending Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare services to Gloucester why not extend them to Exeter St Davids instead calling all stations?

6.

Yes I agree BUT operated not by GWR but by the WSR instead using their rolling stock and extended to Minehead as a summer service before seeing if there is a business case to do it all year around.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

1. Instead of a Bristol to Oxford service why not balance out the existing terminators at both Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa by having ALL existing Gloucester terminators continue to Cheltenham Spa?

Especially as it's a major Cross Country hub you could make travel connections even easier by doing this.

2.

I would amend the second proposal and instead extend the existing Didcot Parkway to Banbury service to Stratford-upon-Avon instead which keeps the Class 387s between Didcot Parkway and London Paddington for both performance and ecological reasons while the Class 166/165 can run onto Stratford-upon-Avon and Didcot Parkway which is a better use of the Class 166/165s.

3.

This should def go ahead but as part of the wider Devon Metro network ie interwork with Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton services.

4.

Again this could happen but then again could not Transport for Wales fill in any service gaps from Cardiff Central westwards?

5.

Instead of extending Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare services to Gloucester why not extend them to Exeter St Davids instead calling all stations?

6.

Yes I agree BUT operated not by GWR but by the WSR instead using their rolling stock and extended to Minehead as a summer service before seeing if there is a business case to do it all year around.

1. The reason why I wanted Bristol to Oxford was to provide a direct link between Oxford and the West (i.e either Bristol or Cardiff) to allow passengers to head from Oxford to the west without changing at Reading or Didcot.

2. I wanted to provide a direct service from Stratford to London by extending the Banbury service to replace Chiltern Railways who withdrew most of the services when the Oxford Parkway-London Maylebone services began.

3. Glad to here! It is needed.

4. Ok that makes sense

5. Sounds like a plan. Had considered that but just decided not to.

6. Similar to Okehampton or Corfe Castle?

 

[Aictos]

1. The reason why I wanted Bristol to Oxford was to provide a direct link between Oxford and the West (i.e either Bristol or Cardiff) to allow passengers to head from Oxford to the west without changing at Reading or Didcot.

However you can always change at Bristol Parkway which is served by XC so no need to change at Reading or Didcot as Bristol Parkway is sited ideally for both South Wales traffic and South West traffic.

 

[cactustwirly]

However you can always change at Bristol Parkway which is served by XC so no need to change at Reading or Didcot as Bristol Parkway is sited ideally for both South Wales traffic and South West traffic.

Which is no good if you want Oxford, however changing at Didcot for Oxford is quite easy.

 

[ABB125]

1. Instead of a Bristol to Oxford service why not balance out the existing terminators at both Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa by having ALL existing Gloucester terminators continue to Cheltenham Spa?

Especially as it's a major Cross Country hub you could make travel connections even easier by doing this.

2.

I would amend the second proposal and instead extend the existing Didcot Parkway to Banbury service to Stratford-upon-Avon instead which keeps the Class 387s between Didcot Parkway and London Paddington for both performance and ecological reasons while the Class 166/165 can run onto Stratford-upon-Avon and Didcot Parkway which is a better use of the Class 166/165s.

3.

This should def go ahead but as part of the wider Devon Metro network ie interwork with Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton services.

4.

Again this could happen but then again could not Transport for Wales fill in any service gaps from Cardiff Central westwards?

5.

Instead of extending Bristol Parkway to Weston-Super-Mare services to Gloucester why not extend them to Exeter St Davids instead calling all stations?

6.

Yes I agree BUT operated not by GWR but by the WSR instead using their rolling stock and extended to Minehead as a summer service before seeing if there is a business case to do it all year around.

I'm pretty sure there isn't space at Cheltenham for any more terminating trains. However, if they were extended to Worcester, calling at Ashchurch...

 

[VT 390]

I would like to see all the Bristol to Gloucester trains extended to Worcester to provide an hourly service as well as a second train from Gloucester to Bristol to provide 2tph all day.
Also if capacity could be found for it a second train every hour from Bristol to Southampton or in the alternate hours to the Weymouth trains.
A Devon Metro would also be good to see with a half hourly service from Crediton to Exeter formed of 1 Barnstaple and one Okehampton train with one of these to run through to Axminster, if possible half hourly to the SWR service calling at all stations except St James Park to allow the SWR to only call at selected Honiton between Exeter and Axminster. Also with the Devon Metro a Half Hourly service from Paignton to Exmouth calling at all stations.

 

[adrock1976]

I would like to see a Somerset, Wiltshire, and Gloucestershire Taktplan with clock face departures as follows:

Local services

Bristol Temple Meads - Severn Beach every 60 minutes
Bristol TM - Bristol Parkway via Henbury every 60 minutes
Gloucester - Weston-super-Mare via Filton Abbey Wood every 30 minutes, calling all stations, plus extensions every 60 minutes to Taunton
Bristol TM - Portishead every 60 minutes to start with, possible increase to every 30 minutes if popular (link with Severn Beach/Parkway above?)
Bristol TM - Bath Spa shuttle every 30 minutes (calling all stations) just after the London Paddington via Chippenham trains have departed, and before the ex Cardiff - Portsmouth arrives at Bristol TM
Bristol TM - Frome every 60 minutes calling all stations, with 2 hourly extensions to Weymouth via Yeovil Pen Mill
Swindon - Salisbury via Melksham every 60 minutes, calling all stations, plus the proposed re-opened near Salisbury (unsure of the name)
Bristol Parkway - Westbury every 60 minutes calling Filton Abbey Wood, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshfield, Avoncliffe Halt, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, and Westbury

Regional limited stop services

Cardiff Central - Bristol TM every 30 minutes calling at Newport (Gwent), Severn Tunnel Junction, [Pilning]*, Patchway, Filton Abbey Wood, and Bristol TM (*limited calls until new residential developments are built, if ever. Every 2 hours to start off, then build the frequency from there afterwards). Note that this is more of a shuttle service.
Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour every 60 minutes calling Newport (Gwent), Filton Abbey Wood, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Cobham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea, and Portsmouth Harbour
Bristol TM - Portsmouth Harbour every 60 minutes calling Bath Spa, then as per ex Cardiff - Portsmouth (could run non-stop between Bath Spa and Westbury and couple to the ex Cardiff portion there)
Bristol TM - Great Malvern every 60 minutes calling Filton Abbey Wood, Gloucester, Cheltenham Spa, Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Foregate Street, Malvern Link, and Great Malvern

Note that the above are just my thoughts and fantasies, and I have not yet laid it out in a spreadsheet to see how it would all look like. I have switched the present Cardiff - Portsmouth to run direct between Filton Abbey Wood and Bath Spa so as to help provide timetable robustness, but have compensated for a twice hourly Cardiff - Bristol TM shuttle and a Bristol TM - Westbury - Portsmouth (which could be coupled to the ex Cardiff at Westbury). I have split the present Cardiff - Taunton via Weston-super-Mare, so as to keep things simple all round for a Taunton - Gloucester via Weston-super-Mare all stations service.

 

[adrock1976]

Further to my previous post, I have had a go at creating a Taktplan (clock face departures) timetable, which can be found in the new thread I started in this section of the forum. The link is below for those who have not seen it yet.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-gloucestershire-clockface-timetable.179733/