Whatever happened to naming and shaming?

[centraltrains]

I'm sure I use to remember seeing lists of people put up at stations who had been caught without valid tickets when I was younger.... I was listening to everyone's favourite song ...

... and at 3:48 they mention naming and shaming which made me remember it...

Can't seem to find much out about it on google though did come across this...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1488180/Train-fare-dodgers-named-and-shamed-at-stations.html

"Central Trains is the first rail operator in the country to publish the names and addresses of 88 offenders convicted of travelling without paying on services across the West Midlands last month."

Which would confirm that I had definitely seen one...

Anyone know what happened to this?

 

[yorkie]

I believe some still do.

(If only it worked the other way too, as there's a small minority of individuals who reject valid tickets )

 

[centraltrains]

I believe some still do.

(If only it worked the other way too, as there's a small minority of individuals who reject valid tickets )

Do you know any of the ones which still do?

 

[yorksrob]

There used to be a poster of some lad on Northern trains a couple of years back who'd been caught fare dodging, and I always thought it a bit sinister. Surely if due process had been served, that was enough, without plastering over public spaces in trains.

 

[Mathew S]

I'd be prepared to put money on any TOC which tried it now (or at least from this coming May onwards) getting into hot water with the Information Commissioner, particularly if the poster stays up after the miscreant's offence is considered spent. Much as I understand the motive behind naming & shaming, it's not really compatible with the "right to a private and family life" that we enshrine in our data protection laws.

 

[Qwerty133]

I'd be prepared to put money on any TOC which tried it now (or at least from this coming May onwards) getting into hot water with the Information Commissioner, particularly if the poster stays up after the miscreant's offence is considered spent. Much as I understand the motive behind naming & shaming, it's not really compatible with the "right to a private and family life" that we enshrine in our data protection laws.

But the convictions still get listed in local newspapers as there an easy way of filling space without doing much actual journalism...
Although I suppose it could be argued with an average circulation of 3 pensioners and a cat no one really sees it in that form.

 

[Mathew S]

But the convictions still get listed in local newspapers as there an easy way of filling space without doing much actual journalism...
Although I suppose it could be argued with an average circulation of 3 pensioners and a cat no one really sees it in that form.

"Week in court" articles as you mention are usually published within a few days, when you could still - albeit loosely in many cases - refer to the conviction as news. Continuing to publicise it many months or years later, for example, would mean the journalist having to justify that to do so was somehow in the public interest. Under the new GDPR, there's actually discussion about whether news websites should remove those week in court articles after a period of time has elapsed anyway, as part of the 'right to be forgotten' and to counteract the Google effect which can hinder now law-abiding people with a conviction from obtaining employment.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm glad I've not seen that particular poster for a while now.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Central Trains definitely did it. The lists were huge. I remember seeing one poster at Bescot Stadium and taking a photo as one of those named was a Mr Darth Vader. I'll try to find the pic tomorrow.

 

[route:oxford]

I'd be prepared to put money on any TOC which tried it now (or at least from this coming May onwards) getting into hot water with the Information Commissioner, particularly if the poster stays up after the miscreant's offence is considered spent. Much as I understand the motive behind naming & shaming, it's not really compatible with the "right to a private and family life" that we enshrine in our data protection laws.

The person who was "named & shamed" would be assured of a considerable compensation package from any organisation that broke the GDPR rules.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Years ago (in BR days) Merseyrail used to allegedly name and shame people on posters on the trains. Unfortunately all the photos were recognisable as...the revenue squad.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Years ago (in BR days) Merseyrail used to allegedly name and shame people on posters on the trains. Unfortunately all the photos were recognisable as...the revenue squad.

What? You mean they were trying to deter fare dodgers by putting up "caught" pictures of mugshots using their own staff and made up names pretending they were convicted fare dodgers?!

 

[Mathew S]

The person who was "named & shamed" would be assured of a considerable compensation package from any organisation that broke the GDPR rules.

Indeed. The financial penalties possible under the GDPR are eye watering. Up to €20,000,000 or 4% of the company's annual turnover, whichever is higher, plus compensation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What? You mean they were trying to deter fare dodgers by putting up "caught" pictures of mugshots using their own staff and made up names pretending they were convicted fare dodgers?!

Unless the people actually caught had a very uncanny resemblence to the RPI squad, yes, that's exactly what they were doing. I can't remember for certain if names were displayed, but there was a picture and the fine they had allegedly received. I suspect the cases were real but the photographs weren't.

(At the time, I'm talking mid-1990s here, there was one main RPI squad who operated on the Merseyrail Northern Lines, people got to recognise them if they travelled often).

 

[PeterC]

The person who was "named & shamed" would be assured of a considerable compensation package from any organisation that broke the GDPR rules.

Considering that the print version will remain accessible and, at some point, digitised in a searchable format by the British Library as wll as the paper's own website I am reminded of a line from 1984 concering maintenance of a newspaper archive "refs unpersons, doubleplussungood"

 

[Mathew S]

Considering that the print version will remain accessible and, at some point, digitised in a searchable format by the British Library as wll as the paper's own website I am reminded of a line from 1984 concering maintenance of a newspaper archive "refs unpersons, doubleplussungood"

There's a huge difference between information being accessible to someone prepared to go and search through the archives of the British Library and being published on a poster viewed by thousands of people every day on the rail network.

As for the paper's own website, see my point earlier regarding the 'right to be forgotten'.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

On a serious note sadly enforcing is nigh on impossible and very frustrating.

 

[cuccir]

Tyne and Wear Metro were still doing this in the mid 2000s; not sure when it stopped.

EDIT - I see the original post referred to this; the video had not previously loaded! It was a long standing policy on the Metro, and I think the relatively small size of Tyneside and relatively low migration to the area meant that they could rely on people being recognizable at their local stations.

 

[syorksdeano]

Central Trains definitely did it. The lists were huge. I remember seeing one poster at Bescot Stadium and taking a photo as one of those named was a Mr Darth Vader. I'll try to find the pic tomorrow.

Mr Darth Vader actually exists https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/01/27/im-no-fare-e-vader-says-lord-darth/

 

[matt_world2004]

Mr Darth Vader actually exists https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/01/27/im-no-fare-e-vader-says-lord-darth/

I bet he got taken to court because the RPI didnt believe he was giving a genuine name on the penalty fare...