What's your favourite TOC and why?

[Hyphen]

Favourite 'current' TOC would have to be FGW. They've come a long way from their bad old days, and for the most part I find them fairly punctual on the Paddington-Swansea runs. They're preferable to ATW on the South Wales route, certainly. They have a good range of cheaply priced first advances, and whilst many will probably argue the complimentary catering leaves a lot to be desired (compared to other TOCs), I'm actually very happy with the range. I don't do much 1st travel away from FGW/FTPE though.

I do know FGW's local services can leave a lot to be desired and I've been crush loaded on the Cardiff-Portsmouth though, and I've experienced pacer hell on holiday in the South West before but even so, I still (somehow) get the impression FGW care a bit more than Northern. Perhaps my decision is swayed by the fact I don't use these regularly.

Favourite historical TOC, it'd have to be Central Trains. I will admit I didn't travel as much as I do now back in CT days, but the main routes were (as now) the Norwich-Liverpool and Nottingham-Cardiff. It was a shame to see the 170s go from the former, and 2-car services really were painful on that route, but I'll give EMT credit for their improvements. Nothing much has changed on the Nottm-Cardiff except that it's harder to get to Beeston from Cardiff, I can never find any advance tickets and that first is reclassified. (I loved it when an ex-MML 170 turned up at Cardiff as it usually meant I'd sit in first class on my own)

I never really experienced any of CT's 'famed' punctuality problems though, other than usual disruption.

 

[Parallel]

I haven't travelled on many services in the east of England and am not so very familiar with all TOCs, however from the ones I have used recently (FGW, ATW, XC, SWT, Virgin, Northern & LM) I'd have to say that actually my favourite is probably Arriva Trains Wales.

I understand that they do get government funding however. The staff are usually quite friendly and the trains are normally clean. The recent refurbishments of the Class 158s has been done to a very high standard, with comfortable seating, power sockets and electronic displays. I frequently travel on the Marches line and the Cambrian lines but do find that on the Marches line, it can get very crowded, particularly if it's a two carriage 175 to Manchester, but I guess every TOC has a problem with overcrowding.

South West Trains also seem like one of the better TOCs. Their 158s and 159s are always nice to travel on and the auto announcer helps, especially when it's dark. They do have some unfortunate timetabling though, particularly the services to and from Bristol Temple Meads, as, particularly southbound, they get stuck behind a FGW service calling at all stations to Westbury or Weymouth, which is tabled to leave Bath Spa about 5 minutes before, but is quite often delayed anyway.

I use First Great Western the most, and I genuinely really want to like them as I do think they try to keep their trains nice and the livery is quite stylish, but Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour and Gloucester/TM - Weymouth services always seem to be full and standing and delayed. Their HSTs have quite good facilities though, same as Virgin Trains.

(Also my first post!!)

 

[90sWereBetter]

Favourite TOC you say? Well, this TOC is fairly decent, apart from its stupid hat.

But srsly, probably has to be South West Trains. Clean, bright, airy trains. Though, because of my location in the country, and my limited funds (student woes ), I really only get the chance to use different TOCs when I go to London. Otherwise, it's Greater Anglia all the time, and they're pretty good.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Its a toss up between Northern and FGW. due to my loyalty to the North it will have to be Northern.

Firstly i love the Sprinters. They are by far my favourite group of trains. Northern have generally done a very good job and i find everything much more pleasant than under ATN. I have a respect for the staff on the ground struggling to deal with the situation brought on them by government and taking regular abuse for it.

 

[D6975]

FGW have come a long way in recent years and are now not bad at all. I've stood on the platform at Exeter and watch my train to Paignton depart without me on board though. Single pacer on a summer saturday is a joke.
I did a trip to Brum and back from Marylebone last year and was very impressed with Chiltern's silver train.
Northern - good staff (with the notable exception of Blackpool N) shame they've been lumbered with quite so many pacers.
I did quite a bit of travelling on EMTs HSTs and Meridians in the summer and they were all nicely turned out, just a shame that some of the meridians have ended up with a ridiculous 1st/std balance - not EMTs fault I know.

Last - SE trains and SW trains - have they got some kind of dispensation for not offering any reduced fares? The differences between the cheapest Pompey-London and Hastings- London fares from these two and Southern are unbelievable.

 

[Butts]

Scotrail ....... cos they go to really beautiful places ... otherwise wouldnt give them time of day!

Including Falkirk of course - well said

 

[Morgsie]

Virgin and SWT

Hates Souter's politics, SNP supporter

 

[bairy]

I say this as a casual traveller - 40 to 50 journeys this year.

My local TOC is LM who I think do very well. Love the 323s, love the 172s. The fares seem pretty reasonable to me and in general the frequency of cross city line (Birmingham) services is very good. In addition their Twitter team is pretty quick to reply and they tolerate way more abuse than other TOCs I've seen and more than I would.

Have also been on Northern around manc airport for 6 journeys. Friendly guards and clean, punctual trains on every one.

Cross country are meh. Wasn't much fun standing on a 4 car Voyager with 10+ people in each vestabule for 70 mins heading down south at midday, but advance fares were reasonable and staff were informative and polite.

 

[dk1]

abellio greater anglia (note latest lower case) are my most favourite TOC ever because they pay money into my bank account every month

Apart from that Virgin every time.

 

[43074]

Probably First Great Western, based on various experiences over the Summer.

Their trains are generally clean, staff polite, great customer service and good value fares. The pullman services offer the best food on the network, IMO.

And, of course, they have more HSTs than any other TOC.

 

[andos]

FGW have gotten a lot better in recent years. The HSTs are very comfortable and clean and their timekeeping is better than they used to be so they are definitely my favourite long distance TOC. Their local trains are abysmal, however. The decrepit sheds they run in Devon with old school bus style bench seats are horrendous! The local trains they run on the reading to paddington line are a bit better but not much, and they desperately need more carriages.

First Capital Connect are also dreadful. I use the thameslink line in the evening every week day and it isn't uncommon for my train to be late every single night of the week! The trains are filthy too.

I think my favourite shorter distance trains are south west. The carriages are very clean and comfortable and on most routes I've used they are very frequent too.

 

[cuccir]

East Coast are the best of those that I use with any regularity.

 

[davetheguard]

First Great Western are my favourite TOC for the way they've listened to local user's groups and put in a lot of management time to grow passenger usage on those iconic Devon & Cornwall branch lines.

All the initial worries about an "Inter City" TOC not being interested in local services has been proved unfounded. The cuts to branch line timetables ordered by the totally out of touch DfT at the start of the franchise have not only been reversed, but frequencies have been increased; sometimes even doubled, as in the case of the Falmouth branch.

And while they've not got everything right (they ruined the HST interiors in Standard Class), overall they've done well with sometimes limited resources (DfT's fault again) on their Inter City, Regional, and London commuter operations.

 

[313103]

Virgin and SWT

Hates Souter's politics, SNP supporter

The irony is not lost on me :roll:

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If I'm heading out to Manchester or Leeds and I want to get there quickly, then it's got to be FTPE...

But once I've finished with my shopping/gigging/whatever and I'm not in such a rush, I'll go for the Northern stopper so that I can sit down in a seat rather than a luggage rack!

Moving away from home territory though, both Merseyrail and SWT have always impressed. Southern and FGW significantly less so.

 

[fowler9]

If I'm heading out to Manchester or Leeds and I want to get there quickly, then it's got to be FTPE...

But once I've finished with my shopping/gigging/whatever and I'm not in such a rush, I'll go for the Northern stopper so that I can sit down in a seat rather than a luggage rack!

Moving away from home territory though, both Merseyrail and SWT have always impressed. Southern and FGW significantly less so.

Yeah, to be fair Merseyrail does what it does really well. I'm not a mad fan of the units but they certainly do a job. And for all of the moaning of mates in the Merseyside area they do that job really well.

 

[40135]

I have several, for various reasons - some more trivial than others:

East Midlands Trains wins me over for their VP185-powered HSTs which provide me with some excellent bashing opportunities when I'm bored. Their 158s can be painfully overcrowded on the Liverpool-Norwich services, though.

First TransPennine Express have a comfortable collection of units and operate frequently on some lovely routes, though I've heard they don't declassify trains anymore in instances of overcrowding, which is pretty rubbish.

CrossCountry... now, here's a story. An ex of mine lived all the way down in Brockenhurst, and was having a seriously bad time of it. So I took a spur of the moment decision one morning to catch the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Brockenhurst to see if she was okay. I was very worried about her. Stupidly, I bought a single ticket as it was all I had the money for, deciding I would work out how to get back when I got there.

I checked my bank account while there - £18. Bugger. It was about £105 to get down. She and her dad took me back to the station in the evening and I asked at the ticket office whether XC could invoice me the price of the ticket, and was told that the best thing I could do would be to ask the guard.

The Voyager rolled in, and I said to the guard that "I came down in a rush this morning and only had money for a single ticket; I need to get back to Manchester tonight, is there anything you can do?"

"Jump on," he told me. And I did. "Now, let's see this ticket?", so I handed him my single ticket, and he played around on his machine... "You meant to get a return, didn't you?"
"No, I only had the money for a single, but-"
"You meant to get a return, didn't you?"
"Yes..." I said, cottoning on. He invalidated my single ticket and printed off the return, worth £210, and told me to sit down. I almost burst into tears. I'd have written to XC giving him a commendation, but it's likely he'd have got the sack!

I've only used First Great Western once, for a run from London to Cardiff to get some HST mileage in, and it was wonderful. Courteous staff, excellent trains and infrastructure, timely running, faultless.

Virgin Trains probably take the cake for me. Their service is utterly impeccable and the company is very charitable. The Pendolinos may not be the most interesting of traction, but they're certainly among the best in the world, and the strongest in this country.

 

[1e10]

I have several, for various reasons - some more trivial than others:

East Midlands Trains wins me over for their VP185-powered HSTs which provide me with some excellent bashing opportunities when I'm bored. Their 158s can be painfully overcrowded on the Liverpool-Norwich services, though.

First TransPennine Express have a comfortable collection of units and operate frequently on some lovely routes, though I've heard they don't declassify trains anymore in instances of overcrowding, which is pretty rubbish.

CrossCountry... now, here's a story. An ex of mine lived all the way down in Brockenhurst, and was having a seriously bad time of it. So I took a spur of the moment decision one morning to catch the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Brockenhurst to see if she was okay. I was very worried about her. Stupidly, I bought a single ticket as it was all I had the money for, deciding I would work out how to get back when I got there.

I checked my bank account while there - £18. Bugger. It was about £105 to get down. She and her dad took me back to the station in the evening and I asked at the ticket office whether XC could invoice me the price of the ticket, and was told that the best thing I could do would be to ask the guard.

The Voyager rolled in, and I said to the guard that "I came down in a rush this morning and only had money for a single ticket; I need to get back to Manchester tonight, is there anything you can do?"

"Jump on," he told me. And I did. "Now, let's see this ticket?", so I handed him my single ticket, and he played around on his machine... "You meant to get a return, didn't you?"
"No, I only had the money for a single, but-"
"You meant to get a return, didn't you?"
"Yes..." I said, cottoning on. He invalidated my single ticket and printed off the return, worth £210, and told me to sit down. I almost burst into tears. I'd have written to XC giving him a commendation, but it's likely he'd have got the sack!

I've only used First Great Western once, for a run from London to Cardiff to get some HST mileage in, and it was wonderful. Courteous staff, excellent trains and infrastructure, timely running, faultless.

Virgin Trains probably take the cake for me. Their service is utterly impeccable and the company is very charitable. The Pendolinos may not be the most interesting of traction, but they're certainly among the best in the world, and the strongest in this country.

How would a guard issue a ticket without taking funds for it without their float being down?

 

[40135]

How would a guard issue a ticket without taking funds for it without their float being down?

Forgive me - 'float'?

 

[High Dyke]

British Rail was my fave TOC, tickets were reasonable and cheap, Mainline engineering works resulting in major closures blocking the line to London and the trains would run to other London terminals. You could catch a cross country from Manchester to Gatwick at 11pm at night or a sleeper from Manchester to Euston. And Blackpool, Shrewsbury, Barrow-in-Furness and Stranraer had direct services to and from Euston. Where have them days gone?

To some extent i agree. Once you got passed the bland face, the lack of investment in many areas, the butt of many a joke then you could find a railway that tried its best under the circumstances. Once travelled overnight Glasgow - Bristol (during an All Line Rover) - you can't get a direct rail service like that anymore. There was usually stock available to strengthen a train if needed, or run a relief service. If the train failed you had better odds at getting a replacement loco / unit than you do now.

You would think i would go for EMT - free travel etc... Yes they do provide a service to a number of places i visit regularly, but sometimes the trains could be a bit cleaner, some of the on-train staff need a lesson in customer service and the management actually need to show their staff and passengers more respect and understanding.

Yes East Coast do have more trains, do give a good customer service, and are a good reflection on what a properly run public railway can do, but i prefer Hull trains when travelling to / from London.

 

[fowler9]

Wow, I think that is a winner there for Cross Country. That fella put his neck on the line for you. There is nothing better than someone doing something they really don't have to, especially when it could cause them a whole world of grief. I've had something similar myself.

 

[40135]

Wow, I think that is a winner there for Cross Country. That fella put his neck on the line for you. There is nothing better than someone doing something they really don't have to, especially when it could cause them a whole world of grief. I've had something similar myself.

Indeed - it's not often seen in our world of mundane drudgery and professional jobsworthiness. It was a moment of genuine sympathy, empathy, and kindness, and it's something I've never forgotten, and never will.

XC have never been short of excellent in my experience. Their customer service is wonderful (I witnessed, on my way to Bristol one morning, the guard graciously helping a family who'd been given completely wrong and confusing information by a Northern Rail denizen at Piccadilly - he wasn't about to persecute them and get them to pay above the odds for a mistake that wasn't theirs, rather, he offered them carriage to the next available station and gave exacting instructions on what to do next), and there have been several times where I've had tickets booked for a specific service which guards have turned a blind eye to when I've wanted to get away from Stoke on Trent without freezing to death.

 

[fowler9]

Oddly enough despite how often I use the railways I have only used Cross Country once. It was from Wolverhampton to Coventry for a wedding, the train was empty and the ticket was cheap,couldn't ask for much more.

 

[bairy]

How would a guard issue a ticket without taking funds for it without their float being down?

Forgive me - 'float'?

Amount he's sold vs amount of money he has taken in to pay for those sales.

You paid £105 for a single. He invalidated that and gave you a return worth £210 which you apparently didn't pay any additional for. Meaning he has sold £105 more than he has taken in income.

1e10 was wondering how he got away with that.

 

[185]

Amount he's sold vs amount of money he has taken in to pay for those sales.

You paid £105 for a single. He invalidated that and gave you a return worth £210 which you apparently didn't pay any additional for. Meaning he has sold £105 more than he has taken in income.

1e10 was wondering how he got away with that.

Assume it will be either an XS fare, or an 'incorrect' XS fare, which both are quite unlikely to be audited, and even then, the Train Manager has a fair degree of discretion in dealing with passengers underpaying.

To understand a guards reasoning, think along the lines of this....
1) At least he's paid something. There's many who've paid nothing.
2) Paid £110 this morning. That's about ten times what most of the people with advances paid on this train.
3) I should charge the full amount, but sometimes customer service comes before company profits.
Quite importantly) Was this a genuine error?
Most importantly) Was he polite?

*runs for cover while debate starts* :P

 

[hairyhandedfool]

How would a guard issue a ticket without taking funds for it without their float being down?

Nothing to do with his float, that will be the same the next day and the day after that. It will be a question of how the guard's shift sheet balances (or doesn't) and that may depend on who does the shift sheet (I'm not a guard so I honestly don't know who does it) or what is put on it.

 

[davetheguard]

Oddly enough despite how often I use the railways I have only used Cross Country once. It was from Wolverhampton to Coventry for a wedding, the train was empty and the ticket was cheap,couldn't ask for much more.

Well, a quick look at brfares gives the following two current prices (amongst others) from Manchester to Brockenhurst:

SOS Standard Single not via London £112.50
and
SVR Standard Off Peak Return not via London £105.40

As the walk on return is less than the single, perhaps the answer lies there somewhere.....?

 

[40135]

Amount he's sold vs amount of money he has taken in to pay for those sales.

You paid £105 for a single. He invalidated that and gave you a return worth £210 which you apparently didn't pay any additional for. Meaning he has sold £105 more than he has taken in income.

1e10 was wondering how he got away with that.

Ah, thank-you!

Assume it will be either an XS fare, or an 'incorrect' XS fare, which both are quite unlikely to be audited, and even then, the Train Manager has a fair degree of discretion in dealing with passengers underpaying.

To understand a guards reasoning, think along the lines of this....
1) At least he's paid something. There's many who've paid nothing.
2) Paid £110 this morning. That's about ten times what most of the people with advances paid on this train.
3) I should charge the full amount, but sometimes customer service comes before company profits.
Quite importantly) Was this a genuine error?
Most importantly) Was he polite?

*runs for cover while debate starts* :P

Yeah, that sounds likely to be honest!

Well, a quick look at brfares gives the following two current prices (amongst others) from Manchester to Brockenhurst:

SOS Standard Single not via London £112.50
and
SVR Standard Off Peak Return not via London £105.40

As the walk on return is less than the single, perhaps the answer lies there somewhere.....?

Interesting. The ticket definitely said £210 on it, and I didn't go via London! I still have it somewhere, I think - it definitely had something noted on it which could explain all this. I'll see if it's around...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
National Rail has a return not via London at £220.