When is a child, not a child?

[DaveHarries]

A local paper recently carried a story about lost tourist attractions, and one such was 'illustrated' with an advert (dating sometime between 1934 and 1959) detailing bus connections. What also caught my attention, though, was that this attraction considered a child to be aged between 1 and 12.

It seems to me that just as tourist attractions have entry fees, us operators have a variety of different policies on "reduced rate" fares, be it purely in terms of age, options, ID requirements, etc. Many of them seem to consider a child fare to expire aged 16, and thus make travel substantially more expensive just at the point (aged 17) when they have an option on the horizon other than parental taxi or their own steam. So this got me thinking...
- when does a "legal child" (i.e. under 18) stop being a child on your local bus operator(s)?
- Are there any requirements beforehand to "prove" eligibility for reduced rate fares?
- Any other restrictions? (e.g. no return fares)

Do these "restrictions" have any effect - positive or negative - either from their, parent, or other adult perspectives? (And not just from the local newspaper "my kid got left behind in the rain by uncaring bus driver" headline perspective!)

For ease of discussion, bearing in mind the growing number of travel passes, I'm referring to normal fare conditions, i.e. an "on-bus" fare, "paid" to the driver for a particular journey or series thereof.

My local operator, Arriva Kent & Surrey, seems to still have the same policy as when I was that age, namely payment due between 5 and 16, with no ID card required (just the ability to front out the driver), and no return or child fares before 9am... which led to the quirk that once I no longer qualified for statutory travel under the 3 mile rule at 16, my journey to school cost twice as much as my journey home!

Hi Chris,

FirstGroup (certainly in Bristol) say that Child tickets are for 0-15s.

Dave

 

[galwhv69]

On London Buses
<5 = Free, no Zip card required but have to travel with adult
5 - 10 = Free, no Zip card required
11 - 15 = Free, but Zip card required
16- 17 = Free, but new Zip card required
18 + for students = 50% off Travelcards & Season Tickets only, no PAYG discount

 

[Deerfold]

In West Yorks, its free for under 5s, half fare up to age 11

Then from age 11 you need a Photocard which is issued free and allows continued half fare travel

16-18 you need a different photocard which costs £5 and still allows half fare travel

19-25 year olds also have access to discounted M Card products both for buses and trains, but otherwise would be full fare. This is available for students over 25 as well.

Just for clarity, the "16-18" card is valid until the September after your 18th Birthday.

When I went to York I was quite surprised that Child fare is only available up until age 11, with children 11-16 being required to have a card that is issued by the City Council to those who are resident, or study in the City of York boundary.

I’d never previously been anywhere else where someone 15 or under wasn’t considered a child, and would have thought that it would at least be consistent by operating company.

Is this a historical thing (ie. did the former municipal bus operator in York have a non-standard age)?

How would someone 11-15 who was just visiting London pay (with no forward planning)?

 

[robbob700]

How would someone 11-15 who was just visiting London pay (with no forward planning)?

You can add a Young Visitor discount to a standard oyster card which gives half-price bus travel for up to 14 days, but if you want free travel you would need to plan in advance.

 

[Deerfold]

You can add a Young Visitor discount to a standard oyster card which gives half-price bus travel for up to 14 days, but if you want free travel you would need to plan in advance.

Thanks - that appears to be very poorly advertised.

 

[callumowen]

Southern Vectis was 14 when we lived on the Isle of Wight, not sure if it still is. East Yorkshire is 16, though if someone age 16-18 is at college there is a 16-18 fare which is about half way between half and full fare. With EY under 5s travel free.

Vectis now follows suit with the rest of Go South Coast, and child fares apply until the passengers' 19th birthday.

 

[Eyersey468]

Vectis now follows suit with the rest of Go South Coast, and child fares apply until the passengers' 19th birthday.

Thanks

 

[Pat1105]

A suggestion that I would make is that a child fare should be charged if the child does not take up a seat.

 

[PG]

A suggestion that I would make is that a child fare should be charged if the child does not take up a seat.

That doesn't work too well on services operated by vehicles with no standee capacity.

 

[ALEMASTER]

In South Yorkshire, the child discounts on bus and tram are mostly part of a concessionary fare scheme funded by the local authority (SYPTE).

The concessionary fare is a flat fare of 80p per single journey with daily and weekly passes also available.

Entitlement is
- all 5-11 year olds (Primary school age)
- 12-15 year olds holding a "Megatravel" concessionary pass issued by SYPTE
- 16-17 year olds holding a 16-18 concessionary pass issued by SYPTE

In addition some operators commercially offer some discounted fares for all young people of school age, these are generally aimed at those making cross boundary journeys, for example from Sheffield into Derbyshire. These are also offered to those aged 12-15/17 that aren't local residents therefore not entitled to a concessionary pass.

There are also some quirks in the system, for example the Stagecoach Silver Dayrider and Megarider has a child discount, this ticket is valid on all Stagecoach buses and trams in South Yorkshire, Dronfield and Chesterfield and requires a concessionary pass - either a SYPTE or Derbyshire one, although the bus has to be in the appropriate county for the concessionary pass at the time of purchase (unless bought online of course)!

 

[L401CJF]

Merseyside is up until 19th Birthday . Usually 50% normal fare. Merseytravel do an any operator day saver called a Myticket up to age 19. Its an absolute joke as no ID is required, drivers arnt allowed to challenge, the few remaining inspectors dont question it. People well into their 40s buy them and a large number of those who are actually in the age bracket for them, just buy one then ride around on the buses aimlessly with their mates being a right nuisance. Really need to introduce an I-Go style system like TfGM, but merseytravel don't want to know.

 

[Ken H]

West Works PTE/Metro say 15
fares rounded down too!!
think this is the old Leeds City transport conditions.
From timetable dated 1974

 

[Geordie driver]

Another memory, I once had a group of Italian school kids and their teachers get on, about 20 kids and 4 teachers, it was 20p for a child under 14 or full fare, over a quid, for anyone over 14. Some of the kids were 13, some were 14, so I told the teachers all the kids were 13 and make sure we all stuck to that. Took a while but they got it in the end and were very grateful.

 

[PG]

Another memory, I once had a group of Italian school kids and their teachers get on, about 20 kids and 4 teachers, it was 20p for a child under 14 or full fare, over a quid, for anyone over 14. Some of the kids were 13, some were 14, so I told the teachers all the kids were 13 and make sure we all stuck to that. Took a while but they got it in the end and were very grateful.

Blimey some child fare that was, less than 20% of the full fare! Unless of course child fares had a cap on the maximum?

 

[Geordie driver]

Blimey some child fare that was, less than 20% of the full fare! Unless of course child fares had a cap on the maximum?

The child fare was flat, even if it was one stop or the full route it was 20p. When I started in in 1985 all Tyne and Wear fares were zonal, the highest adult fare was 45p, a child fare was 5p.

I once had 2 kids get on my bus, 401 Newcastle to Newbiggin by the sea, they had golf clubs so I told them to be careful and they asked to be off at Gosforth park, where there is a golf course.

I forgot they were on, pulled up at Newbiggin and they came down stairs asking when they would be at the golf course! So I took them back for free, 3 hours round trip for 5p. When I got to the golf course they didn't want to get off as they didn't have time.

I also got checked on the way back and had to explain why I had 2 none fare paying passengers on board.

 

[bus man]

Some operators had - or may even have one now - a cap was in place on the number of child fares per adult.

 

[scotrail158713]

Some operators had - or may even have one now - a cap was in place on the number of child fares per adult.

True. Lothian Buses have a limit of 3 per adult. Not sure how much it would be enforced though.

 

[richw]

Here in the southwest it truly varies by operator.
First southwest- day before 17th birthday
Stagecoach southwest - day before 16th birthday
Go ahead southwest (Plymouth/TFC) - day before 19th birthday!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

True. Lothian Buses have a limit of 3 per adult. Not sure how much it would be enforced though.

What's stopping the parent giving each individual child the cash and they pay the fare themselves?

Are you sure it's not 3 under 5's per farepaying adult travel for free? Otherwise it seems like a bit of a stupid policy IMO.

 

[scotrail158713]

Are you sure it's not 3 under 5's per farepaying adult travel for free? Otherwise it seems like a bit of a stupid policy IMO.

Apologies - I hadn’t actually checked. I’d just known about their limit on under 5s and for some reason put that together as all children are limited. On a second check it is under 5s that are 3 per adult though.
(When I made the original post I was typing it thinking it’s a bizarre rule to have )

 

[Deerfold]

Apologies - I hadn’t actually checked. I’d just known about their limit on under 5s and for some reason put that together as all children are limited. On a second check it is under 5s that are 3 per adult though.
(When I made the original post I was typing it thinking it’s a bizarre rule to have )

I've seen bus companies have very low fares for accompanying children - there's usually a limit on how many of these are allowed, with additional children at normal child fare.

 

[scotrail158713]

Ember - who run an all-electric service between Edinburgh and Dundee - have child fares from 5-18. Although they do recommend older children have ID in case they are questioned on their age.