When is breaking return journey over multiple days not allowed?

[jazzy]

I’m planning to travel from Bristol to Glasgow on an off-peak return and then a few days later to return with an overnight stop at some intermediate station.

The Conditions of Carriage (section 16) say the following:

INFORMATION: Most Tickets allow you to break your journey. This means
that you do not have to make the whole of your journey at the same time or, where allowed, on the same day.

How do I know ‘where allowed’? Assuming I buy from Crosscountry’s website, where would it say if it’s allowed or not?

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[jfollows]

Look up the specific ticket and see its restrictions, eg https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=BRI&dest=GLC&expert=on&flow=0&multi=0&fare=3&tkt=SVR

Break of journey is allowed unless it says that it isn't.

Ticket is valid for 1 month on the return leg from date of purchase.

Like most off-peak returns, you can break your journey as many times as you want in as many places as you want along the valid route.

Be aware that some staff believe that you have to use the return portion on a single day, and sometimes mark the ticket with the date when it is used. They are wrong, but it's a pain, and usually the next member of staff you encounter will know they're wrong anyway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thinking there must be some decent ticket split savings opportunities for a Bristol -> Glasgow-> Bristol itinerary, depending, of course, on where exactly the OP wishes to break their journey (presumably on the way back South).

 

[jazzy]

Thinking there must be some decent ticket split savings opportunities for a Bristol -> Glasgow-> Bristol itinerary, depending, of course, on where exactly the OP wishes to break their journey (presumably on the way back South).

We’ll be travelling with a small baby so would not want to really change our journey or commit to a particular timed train but if any splits work on a 0944 departure from BPW, I’d be happy to hear about them! I had a quick play but didn’t spot any significant improvements by splitting at BHM. I haven’t tried splitting north of that. Plan is to depart Friday 24th and leave Glasgow on Monday 27th stopping somewhere en route to return on Wednesday 29th

 

[Watershed]

As with so much of the NRCoT, it's a case of clumsy and confusing wording. It'll be alluding to the fact that many tickets (such as Anytime Day Singles) are only valid for one day - so, by definition, an overnight break of journey isn't permitted.

If you have an Off-Peak Return for instance, in 98% of cases break of journey will be permitted. The outward portion is (with a marginal exception) valid for one day, so you can break your journey en-route (multiple times if you like) on that day.

On the return portion, which is valid for a month, you can again break your journey as often as you like, and continue the journey (with further breaks if you like) at any point within the month's validity.

 

[mangyiscute]

We’ll be travelling with a small baby so would not want to really change our journey or commit to a particular timed train but if any splits work on a 0944 departure from BPW, I’d be happy to hear about them! I had a quick play but didn’t spot any significant improvements by splitting at BHM. I haven’t tried splitting north of that. Plan is to depart Friday 24th and leave Glasgow on Monday 27th stopping somewhere en route to return on Wednesday 29th

Yeah having a quick look, the main issue is that on Monday 27th there are replacement buses on the west cost main line between Carlisle and Oxenholme, so you would want to travel via the East coast, but that makes it rather more expensive. Going via the West coast on the way back as well can save quite a bit, but dealing with a bus is far from desirable.
The replacement buses are just on the Monday, on the Tuesday the service is back to normal so if you can either spend one more night in glasgow or at least as north as carlisle, you can return via this route bus free and save a bit of money

 

[jfollows]

Yeah having a quick look, the main issue is that on Monday 27th there are replacement buses on the west cost main line between Carlisle and Oxenholme, so you would want to travel via the East coast, but that makes it rather more expensive. Going via the West coast on the way back as well can save quite a bit, but dealing with a bus is far from desirable.
The replacement buses are just on the Monday, on the Tuesday the service is back to normal so if you can either spend one more night in glasgow or at least as north as carlisle, you can return via this route bus free and save a bit of money

Bristol-Glasgow is valid via York and Edinburgh, maps PY + YG at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps
"Any permitted" ticket but I think that's the one here.
Full list of valid routes:

• MP + CG
• MP + CG + GK
• PE
• PE + GK
• PY + YG

Break of journey at any point along any of these routes is allowed.

 

[mangyiscute]

Bristol-Glasgow is valid via York and Edinburgh, maps PY + YG at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps
"Any permitted" ticket but I think that's the one here.

Yeah I worded it badly, going via East Coast there aren't really any cheaper splits, going via West Coast there are some. Through ticket wise, they are the same.

 

[trainJam]

Here is a TFW example where break of journey is not permitted by the restriction code 8A (although the restriction says it only applies Monday to Friday)

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Wolverhampton to Aberystwyth
Off Peak Return

 

[Bletchleyite]

8A is the only exception I've noticed barring break of journey on the return half of a (super) off peak ticket. Nobody even quite knows if it was intentional or just an administrative error based on which section of the restriction code the BoJ restriction is in.

 

[cool110]

8A is the only exception I've noticed barring break of journey on the return half of a (super) off peak ticket. Nobody even quite knows if it was intentional or just an administrative error based on which section of the restriction code the BoJ restriction is in.

I know gatelines are not the arbiter of ticket validity, but I have seen them accept multi-day BoJs on the return half of an 8A ticket. (Manchester Airport to Blackpool South, breaking at Manchester Oxford Road)

 

[jfollows]

I know gatelines are not the arbiter of ticket validity, but I have seen them accept multi-day BoJs on the return half of an 8A ticket. (Manchester Airport to Blackpool South, breaking at Manchester Oxford Road)

I don’t believe gatelines are capable of reading the restriction code. They know if it’s an anytime or off-peak ticket and whether or not it’s discounted with a railcard, but other threads imply that’s about it.

Are off-peak restrictions encoded on paper tickets' mag-stripes?

In the light of recent refusals of valid Off-Peak tickets, I was wondering whether paper tickets have their Off-Peak restrictions encoded in their mag-stripe. I am leaning towards the conclusion that this is not encoded - but that, from previous posts on similar matter, that only the origin...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[cool110]

I don’t believe gatelines are capable of reading the restriction code. They know if it’s an anytime or off-peak ticket and whether or not it’s discounted with a railcard, but other threads imply that’s about it.

That's for paper tickets with the very limited space of the mag-stripe, an e-ticket Aztec code has much more data on it and can be referenced to the database of previous scans.

 

[Haywain]

That's for paper tickets with the very limited space of the mag-stripe, an e-ticket Aztec code has much more data on it and can be referenced to the database of previous scans.

The fact that it could be doesn’t mean that it is.

 

[Belperpete]

Does the issue with etickets expiring on the day they are used still apply, or has that been cured now? I have been careful to get a paper ticket if I am doing multi day break of journey.

 

[jfollows]

Does the issue with etickets expiring on the day they are used still apply, or has that been cured now? I have been careful to get a paper ticket if I am doing multi day break of journey.

E-tickets don’t have this problem; m-tickets which required “apps” from (I think) First Group had the problem and I don’t know if it’s yet been fixed although it should have been. It’s the “app” that decided the tickets were no longer valid; an e-ticket can just be shown without the need for anything else.

EDIT The only remaining problem is with staff who think that a ticket needs to be used in its entirety on one day; of course that’s nothing to do with the ticket format.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

EDIT The only remaining problem is with staff who think that a ticket needs to be used in its entirety on one day; of course that’s nothing to do with the ticket format.

It shouldn't be anything to do with the ticket, but the e-ticket does have a scan history which can provide those members of staff with the "evidence" they need to say the passenger is using it on more than one day.

Those staff are wrong in their belief, but what's the passenger's best option for avoiding such a confrontation. Live in hope that these members of staff will be properly trained before they take their break of journey, or opt for a paper ticket?

 

[Belperpete]

This is the problem I was thinking of, where the scanner alerts a TTI that the ticket is potentially being reused. In my experience, when this happens, the almost default reaction to the scanner alert is to assume that the passenger is in the wrong. Whereas I have never had an issue with a card ticket.

 

[Hadders]

It shouldn't be anything to do with the ticket, but the e-ticket does have a scan history which can provide those members of staff with the "evidence" they need to say the passenger is using it on more than one day.

Those staff are wrong in their belief, but what's the passenger's best option for avoiding such a confrontation. Live in hope that these members of staff will be properly trained before they take their break of journey, or opt for a paper ticket?

A stamped or dated paper ticket has the same issue.

 

[Belperpete]

A stamped or dated paper ticket has the same issue.

In practice, I have never had an issue with a stamped ticket, as the stamping is usually so small and illegible I doubt many guards look at it in detail. On the few occasions when my ticket has had a date scrawled on it, my explanation has been accepted. Whereas if a scanner gives a warning bleep, it almost invariably generates a "computer says no" reaction.