When it comes to buses, is the UK the epitomy of showing the world how NOT to do things?

radamfi

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As the commercial backdrop is different in the UK compared to elsewhere, it explains why things are as they are.
What about London and Belfast?

Even under a stage system, it should be possible to sell a single on the app for any O-D pair, but no one does that.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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What about London and Belfast?

Even under a stage system, it should be possible to sell a single on the app for any O-D pair, but no one does that.
London and Belfast ARE under a different commercial backdrop. Why individual cities don't do that, who can say? Doubtless, there's not total uniformity within Europe?

As I mentioned before, First West of England do enable you to buy single tickets via the app for their flat fare zones.
 

radamfi

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London and Belfast ARE under a different commercial backdrop. Why individual cities don't do that, who can say? Doubtless, there's not total uniformity within Europe?
I pointed out London and Belfast because they are not deregulated, hence that excuse doesn't work there. London is of course more advanced, but it took LT decades until they brought out the Saver ticket, followed by Oyster. Why such a long wait? And still no integration with the tube.

Belfast could easily bring in a zonal fare system as it has had smartcards for years. Dublin is not in the UK but follows a lot of British practices, including stage-based fares, and no integration between bus and Luas.

The point is, British culture and insularity is responsible here. We have three different models in operation in the British Isles: franchising, state operation and deregulation, yet there is little difference in outcome when it comes to fare systems.

There are a number of different ticketing systems in Europe outside the UK and Ireland but in almost all major urban areas they allow you to buy singles away from the driver.

As I mentioned before, First West of England do enable you to buy single tickets via the app for their flat fare zones.
What about short hops or tickets outside of the flat fare areas? Even in a stage based system, you should be able to put in your start stop and end stop in the app and it should be able to sell you a ticket for the whole journey, including changes of bus.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I pointed out London and Belfast because they are not deregulated, hence that excuse doesn't work there. London is of course more advanced, but it took LT decades until they brought out the Saver ticket, followed by Oyster. Why such a long wait? And still no integration with the tube.

Belfast could easily bring in a zonal fare system as it has had smartcards for years. Dublin is not in the UK but follows a lot of British practices, including stage-based fares, and no integration between bus and Luas.

The point is, British culture and insularity is responsible here. We have three different models in operation in the British Isles: franchising, state operation and deregulation, yet there is little difference in outcome when it comes to fare systems.

There are a number of different ticketing systems in Europe outside the UK and Ireland but in almost all major urban areas they allow you to buy singles away from the driver.



What about short hops or tickets outside of the flat fare areas? Even in a stage based system, you should be able to put in your start stop and end stop in the app and it should be able to sell you a ticket for the whole journey, including changes of bus.
You have your views. People, better people than me, have explained the situation but you don't seem to wish to acknowledge that.

The differences can be attributed to history and various aspects, some of which are lost in the mists of time. Some are undoubtedly cultural whereas some are legislative, commercial, etc. Some of it is clearly because a decision was taken in 1893 and it's stuck - I grant you all of that.

Also, you point out various examples from various cities. However, the rest of the world isn't some homogenous template that the UK singularly thumbs its nose at. You continually cite the best examples from Europe and no one can deny the Netherlands as an exemplar of good public transport and cycling funding and execution but that's not to say you'll find the same in Italy.

We could increase funding to comparable or higher levels but this government has singularly sought to REDUCE funding for local authorities and for bus and rail support in particular. However, I see no indication that this will change any time soon, irrespective of whether it is the Boris Backers or the Corbynistas or, god forbid, Farage in charge. When you look at what voters think is important (excluding Brexit), the NHS wins by a mile followed by the Economy, Pay and Job Security, Housing and then Education so sadly, I don't see any extra money that will make a fundamental difference coming the way of transport.

Call me cynical, but I suspect the Buses Bill (as per other stuff with Osborne) was just another way of hollowing out the state. Transfer the responsibility to local government, then remove BSOG altogether as per the Big Society and the over 75s TV licenses.
 

quarella

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It's really not. How is taking a minute or more to process each passenger efficient?

Look at London - with Oyster/contactless they've now got dwells right down - better even than they were with conductor operated RMs because of the dual door arrangement.
I would contend that the demand for data has caused extended times at bus stops. Setright ticket machine, most transactions in under ten seconds including change. A bit longer if the fare had to be looked up. Returns punched. Dayriders/season tickets/Explorers, visual inspection. I grew up in Badgerline's area and they moved onto Wayfarer II machines. Two buttons needed to be pressed to register season ticketsetc. 3 to issue tickets even if it was exactly the same as the previous person which on a Setright would just require another crank of the handle or push of the button. The punches were also registered but the machine could not cope with going through more than one ticket. Time was also lost at changeovers as instead of the driver having the machine and noting down their start and finish figures they now had a cartridge and had to type in various figures. We have moved onto Contactless and Smart Card/Concessionary cards, which fortunately no longer take the 30 seconds I timed a few years ago to register, and supply data that means we no longer have a full bus that the figures would show to be empty.
 

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