zac embleton
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the majority stop at every station but one of them doesnt
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when was the limited stop Leeds to Carlisle service introduced?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Isn't it the remnant of a Nottingham to Glasgow service or similar?
I don't see an awful lot of point in it, to be honest. It'd be better having a 2-hourly clockface timetable than the roughly-2-hourly-hotchpotch it has.
Early to Mid 1990s IIRC and originally through to Glasgow via Beattock. ISTR it was cut back on DfT insistence as it didn't cover costs and was operationally problematic. Its predecessor was a SO all stations pacer which I remember using Cononley-Appleby and back with the family.
As it is operated in marginal time it doesn't detract from the basic 2-hourly service, though I agree southbound is messy.
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It was a Leeds-Carlisle-Glasgow service that Arriva Train Northern (v1) ran. Got cut back about 2003/4 (possibly linked to 125mph Pendo running starting north of Preston. 156s don't fit in too well with that), and temporarily became loco-hauled.
Iskra
Established Member
It was indeed cutback from the Leeds-Glasgow service at the behest of the Strategic Rail Authority. However, it ran with WYPTE red-liveried 158's not 156's. The class 37 loco-hauled service ran between Leeds and Carlisle and did not continue to Glasgow, it just replaced a normal Settle-Carlisle DMU diagram. I travelled on both of these services when they ran.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Is this not the last remnant of the Glasgow-Kilmarnock-Dumfries-Carlisle-Nottingham-St Pancras "Thames-Clyde Express" which was de-named and cut back to run only Glasgow-Nottingham in the late 70s?
Iskra
Established Member
No, that service completely vanished. Arriva Trains Northern then introduced a Leeds-Glasgow via Motherwell and the WCML service, which was then truncated to leave the daily express we have now.
The ATN service never served Dumfries or Nottingham.
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the 37's only run from 2003-2004 as a stop gap measure when did the official last loco hauled diagram run on the Settle and Carlisle line?
Iskra
Established Member
ATN 37's were only fleeting, but can't remember if they ran for more than one summer.
Last official loco hauled diagram was technically last year with Tornado, before that I'd guess the early 90's.
My records say 03-04 for the 37s (my note says top and tail, is that right?), which is consistent with Wikipedia giving 99-03 for the Glasgow.
Before that, the regular LH service ceased with Sprinterisation. I travelled the line in hauled stock in Spring 89, and there was a brief final fling between Christmas and New Year 1990 or 91 (I was conveniently living in Cononley by then) when some exotic locos appeared on 10 Mk2s...
Iskra
Established Member
It was top and tailed, yes.
Sadly the regular LHCS was before my time, only being born in '90. However, it's pretty impressive that 37's are still on a few turns today across the network so long after Sprinterisation.
Harpers Tate
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I think that the answer to the original question is that it wasn't "introduced" as such, but rather retained. Between the time of closure of the intermediate stations which I think happened around 1970, and the re-opening of them in 1986, all passenger services therefore ran "fast" with stops only at the remaining two - Settle and Appleby. In the mid-70s a funded excursion ("Dalesrail") began to serve these places again, to be followed by a re-introduction of a true stopping service in 1986. To my recollection, there was never a point in time where all trains stopped everywhere. The present-day "fast" service is simply a retention of one of those pre-reopening services, with one extra stop at Kirkby Stephen only. It may well have been so specified because it did originally run through to Glasgow, and presumably has simply not been altered since it was truncated at Carlisle.
Just been digging thriugh old timetables.
From the reinstatement of "normal" stopping trains there was only one service that omitted stops north of Settle, and northbound only (0825 Leeds). Even this became all stations.
From Sprinterisation in 91 or 92 all trains were all stations north of Settle. The 094x was all Saturdays and summer SX to start with, and it was this path that was used for the fast Glasgow introduced by Northern Spirit. Presumably the intermediate stops weren't in the PSR in 1994 as it was seasonal, so this was allowable.
From the reinstatement of "normal" stopping trains there was only one service that omitted stops north of Settle, and northbound only (0825 Leeds). Even this became all stations.
From Sprinterisation in 91 or 92 all trains were all stations north of Settle. The 094x was all Saturdays and summer SX to start with, and it was this path that was used for the fast Glasgow introduced by Northern Spirit. Presumably the intermediate stops weren't in the PSR in 1994 as it was seasonal, so this was allowable.
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