When will it go all wrong for the SNP?

[geoffk]

Much as I disagree with their very raison d'etre, given that yesterday was designated one of the SNP's 'Opposition Days' they have every right to feel aggrieved that the Speaker overruled convention in favour of Labour. As do the Tories, assuming that they are annoyed by the breach of protocol rather than playing party politics.....

My understanding is that the Speaker selects which tabled amendments are selected for a vote. It appears that the issue of MPs' safety was used by the current Speaker to justify his handling of the debate on the Gaza war but the debate descended into political points scoring. The problem is that procedures developed at a time when the HoC had only two main parties don't work when there are three, but this is the way Parliament has worked since the 19th century. Time for a written constitution.

 

[Gloster]

Nobody comes out of this well. Labour wanted to push the amendment in order to hold the party together, the SNP is raising the roof in order to try to gain leverage, and the Conservatives sabotaged things because they were worried that quite a few of their MPs would rebel and vote for Labour’s amendment. The Speaker’s explanation has some validity (I say ‘some’), but could just be retrospective justification. I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

 

[Busaholic]

Nobody comes out of this well. Labour wanted to push the amendment in order to hold the party together, the SNP is raising the roof in order to try to gain leverage, and the Conservatives sabotaged things because they were worried that quite a few of their MPs would rebel and vote for Labour’s amendment. The Speaker’s explanation has some validity (I say ‘some’), but could just be retrospective justification. I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

Well said. I'd just add that Hoyle probably made an error of judgment, but as a basically decent man his apology was heartfelt. I think calls for his removal are entirely politically vindictive and should be ignored.

 

[DelW]

I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

That was my thought too. If Netanyahu won't even listen to the Americans who supply much of his aid money and armaments, as well as vetoing anything critical of Israel at the UN, he's hardly likely to take any notice of anything said here.

It reminded me of Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That was my thought too. If Netanyahu won't even listen to the Americans who supply much of his aid money and armaments, as well as vetoing anything critical of Israel at the UN, he's hardly likely to take any notice of anything said here.

It reminded me of Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

I think one problem is, while we're voicing unhappiness at Israel's actions, we're doing basically nothing to incentivise Israel to take heed of our concerns. As one obvious example, I believe we still sell weapons to Israel. For all the horror that various of our representatives are expressing about Israel's actions, I haven't noticed anyone in Parliament suggest that we should suspend those sales.

 

[najaB]

I think one problem is, while we're voicing unhappiness at Israel's actions, we're doing basically nothing to incentivise Israel to take heed of our concerns. As one obvious example, I believe we still sell weapons to Israel.

What do we sell to them?

 

[JamesT]

What do we sell to them?

F35 components.

 

[najaB]

F35 components.

Do we sell to Israel, or do we sell to Lockheed Martin?

 

[Ediswan]

According to this, over £442 million worth between May 2015 and August 2022.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2023-0223/CDP-2023-0223.pdf

The UK has licenced arms worth over £442 million to Israel between May 2015
and August 2022, according to analysis of Government export data by the
Campaign Against Arms Trade (CAAT), a UK based pressure group that seeks
an end to the global arms trade

https://caat.org.uk/news/caat-calls...t-for-israeli-forces-following-gaza-killings/

including:

• £183 million worth of ML22 licences (military technology)
• £117 million worth of ML10 licences (aircraft, helicopters, drones)
• £22 million worth of ML4 licences (grenades, bombs, missiles, countermeasures)
• £4.6 million worth of ML6 licences (armoured vehicles, tanks)
• £1.9 million with of ML3 licences (ammunition)
• £1.1 million worth of ML1 licences (small arms)

 

[najaB]

According to this, over £442 million worth between May 2015 and August 2022.

While approximately £450 million is a lot of money to you or me, it's worth noting that US military assistance to Israel dwarfs that - £50 million a year vs $3 billion a year.

 

[YorkRailFan]

BREAKING: Nicola Sturgeon’s husband Peter Murrell has been re-arrested in connection with the investigation into the SNP’s finances

https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1780991013307211920?t=ZADNrrrkDb8XwgctmQeF-g&s=19

Things only seem to be going further downhill for the SNP.

 

[YorkRailFan]

BREAKING: Nicola Sturgeon’s husband Peter Murrell has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the SNP

https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1781026908869693638?t=_B7LoXY3D-21jjWLYIgRvQ&s=19

Deja Vu to early 2023 after Sturgeon resigned as First Minister.

 

[brad465]

I can't link an article due to being on phone, but Sturgeon's husband has been charged with embezzlement.

EDIT: Link now here:

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement in SNP finance probe

The husband of Nicola Sturgeon had been re-arrested in connection with the SNP finances investigation.

www.bbc.co.uk

The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party.
Peter Murrell, 59, was taken into custody at 09:13 on Thursday and was questioned by Police Scotland detectives.
He was previously arrested as a suspect on 5 April 2023 before being released without charge.
Mr Murrell resigned as the party's chief executive in March 2023.
He was charged at 18:35 after further questioning by Police Scotland officers investigating the funding and finances of the party as part of Operation Branchform.
Mr Murrell has since been released from police custody at Falkirk Police Station.

• Peter Murrell: One half of Scotland's power couple

Police Scotland launched a formal investigation into the SNP's finances in July 2021 after receiving complaints about how donations were used.
Questions had been raised about more than £660,000 in donations given to the party for use in a fresh independence referendum campaign.
When Mr Murrell was arrested last year, police searched the house he shares with Ms Sturgeon in Glasgow and the SNP headquarters in Edinburgh.

 

[Moderating team]

We will have to draw this one to a close now whilst legal process takes place.