When will Southern's ageing Class 455/8 get replaced?

[30907]

SW are supposed to be withdrawing their refurbished and retractioned ones which should have a bit of life in them - could they switch to SN? Or would there be too much of an issue with retraining depot staff?

 

[Anonymous10]

I often commute on Southern Railway and on weekends in particular, I am likely to be stuck on a Southern Railway Class 455 that offers cramped 3 seating in an all family-style layout, no tables, no toilet facilities, no coat hooks, no floor luggage racks, no First Class, no air-conditioning, no plug-powerpoints, horribly bright lighting, and a very loud and jerky ride. I cannot be the only one who cannot stand this.
My question is when and how likely will the Class 455/8 get replaced, and why do Southern put the Class 377's in storage and utilise a high class 455 fleet on suburban services via Norbury and Crystal Palace.
Now, I understand that the Class 379's from Greater Anglia will be free (after they get replaced by new Stadler and Bombardier trains) which have similar characteristics as the existing Class 377/6 on the suburban southern network. Is this a possibility or will they end up with East Midlands Railway?
The Class 707's are said to be going to southeastern from what I can understand, and I don't think their Class 377/5's will ever be seen absorbed onto the Southern Network.
What about the Class 458's from South Western Railway?
Also why does the C2C Class 387 have Southern moquette? Will they eventually go to Southern? Sorry if there is loads of questions, but I am just so confused why what it appears to be new electrostar Southern trains going to C2C, Great Northern and Southeastern, when they have ageing trains from the 1980's. I much rather the Class 319 come onto the southern network, they offer a much moor comfortable ride than the Class 455's that just have a very jerky motor ride.

Look to Wales where on the valley lines commuting into Cardiff it's usually a sprinter or pacer or in other parts of Wales it's a 150/153/143 usually if we see a 158 or anything nice something has been blocked elsewhere

 

[JonathanH]

The 465s and 466s can be scrapped, the 376s are fine but a small fleet compare to the rest of SE metro so I would send them to Southern, if what Starmill said is true about only requiring just over a half then there will be enough 376s to replace the 455s. Then transfer the SE 377s across and there will be enough to replace the 313s.

We have had that discussed before. The 455s are mainly used on routes which aren't suitable for more than 8 car operation (Tulse Hill, Caterham, Coulsdon Town, Beckenham Junction all pose restrictions). 376s would need to be reduced to 4-car units to be useful as 455 replacements and there aren't enough of them.

 

[Romsey]

They were incidentally the last large contract fulfilled by Eastleigh Works before closure by Alstom. Anything after that contract was oddments like converting the thyristor fitted 455/9's of SWT to camshaft controls around 2005.

 

[Andrew S]

The 455s are fine. They do the job perfectly well.

 

[AAO]

I was thinking exactly the same thing! Wonder how the OP would have coped with a Pacer?!

Aren’t the pacers getting replaced?

 

[AAO]

In May 2018 they simplified the diagrams which kept particular trains to particular routes. For example, the Victoria to Epsom/Dorking/Horsham route is self contained with only 377s. Similarly the London Bridge to Caterham and Tattenham Corner (377), London Bridge to Caterham (455), London Bridge to Coulsdon Town (455), London Bridge to Beckenham Jct (455), London Bridge to Epsom (377), Victoria to Epsom Downs (both) and Victoria to Sutton (both) are all self contained routes. London Bridge to Victoria and Victoria to West Croydon interwork: sidings - West Croydon - Victoria - London Bridge - Victoria - West Croydon - sidings.

Another thing Is that since the May 2018 timetable there is only one repetitive working 377/6 or 377/7 on the Victoria - Crystal Palace - London Bridge/West Croydon route. Why is this? They used to be so many more.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Another thing Is that since the May 2018 timetable there is only one repetitive working 377/6 or 377/7 on the Victoria - Crystal Palace - London Bridge/West Croydon route. Why is this? They used to be so many more.

Can’t speak for the Bridge via Crystal Palace route but I’m a regular user of Victoria - West Croydon and it’s almost always two 377/3s attached to a 377/1 (or sometimes attached to a 377/4)

 

[London Trains]

Can’t speak for the Bridge via Crystal Palace route but I’m a regular user of Victoria - West Croydon and it’s almost always two 377/3s attached to a 377/1 (or sometimes attached to a 377/4)

Ah yes, but 2/3 of the trains from Victoria to West Croydon are Sutton/Epsom Downs services via Selhurst - these are usually 10 car 377s.

 

[London Trains]

Another thing Is that since the May 2018 timetable there is only one repetitive working 377/6 or 377/7 on the Victoria - Crystal Palace - London Bridge/West Croydon route. Why is this? They used to be so many more.

I suppose it is due to the use of more 377s on other metro routes. Victoria to Epsom/Dorking/Horsham used to be a mix of 377s and 455s but is 377 only now. Victoria to Sutton/Epsom Downs via Selhurst has more 377s than it did before May 2018. London Bridge to Caterham and Tattenham Corner did not join and divide before May 2018 so sometimes used 455s. London Bridge to Epsom was a peak only route before May 2018 but is all day now, and is 377 only, so more 377s are in use all day.

 

[Tomp94]

I could ask the very same question about the 313 variety of monstrosity.

 

[Journeyman]

Whilst I'm of the opinion that SWT did a much better, and absolutely transformational, job of refurbishing their 455s, I agree there's nothing much wrong with them, and replacing them is probably not urgent at all. Mechanically and electrically they're pretty bulletproof - there really isn't much in them to break. They're reasonably comfortable and aren't used on any routes that demand better facilities.

Obvious choice for the next renewal on Southern is the 313s, significantly older and really not great for the lengthy runs they do.

 

[D365]

They're reasonably comfortable and aren't used on any routes that demand better facilities.

It's not so much about facilities is it? More the desire to bring in ultra-high capacity metro stock which is what's driving the Class 701 introduction.

 

[Domh245]

They're reasonably comfortable and aren't used on any routes that demand better facilities.

The lack of air conditioning is very noticeable during the summer!

 

[Journeyman]

The lack of air conditioning is very noticeable during the summer!

There's still quite a lot of non-ac stock about, though. Again, given the short journeys, I wouldn't say it's a priority.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They sound like luxury. You should try living in the north most of our fleet are like that. With the addition of a diesel engine. And that's the good stuff.

Add the South West to that!

 

[Domh245]

There's still quite a lot of non-ac stock about, though. Again, given the short journeys, I wouldn't say it's a priority.

Not much left within Greater London though. Post 701s it'll just be the SE metro fleet (itself not far off replacement), Southern's 455s, and the Deep Tubes. And arguably given the low speed, highly crowded nature of the services (plus the fact that London tends to be warmer than the rest of the country on average) it's important to have good ventilation.

 

[swt_passenger]

I could ask the very same question about the 313 variety of monstrosity.

The answer would still be the same. There are no plans to replace the 313s during the current franchise.

 

[JonathanH]

I could ask the very same question about the 313 variety of monstrosity.

Obvious choice for the next renewal on Southern is the 313s, significantly older and really not great for the lengthy runs they do.

The reality about 313s is that they are used on journeys with frequent stops - almost suburban in nature. People like to paint a picture that there is some amazing flow of passengers betwen Brighton and Portsmouth that justifies something more luxurious but the reality is that a lot of the travel is short hops. There is nothing really that wrong with using fairly basic 'suburban' stock for Brighton to West Worthing, Brighton to Seaford, Brighton to Hove, Littlehampton to Bognor Regis, Littlehampton to Portsmouth & Southsea all stations.

 

[SouthWalesSam]

Still got to get rid of the 313's first! Always wondering as OP has said about the 379's still not having a confirmed home yet being rather new trains and a good choice i'd have thought for company with Electrostars (Are these still Dual Voltage?), but then again we have alot of stock with no homes (365's and 319's so far)! Could see 376's on the Coastway and the 379's replacing 455's with the 30 379's and perhaps making it up with the C2C 387's with the SE 377's coming back
(Of course no basis in fact for any of this, I always thought the 707's would replace the 455's personally!)