Where would you electrify next?

[TheWalrus]

Didcot-Oxford next for me.

 

[PTR 444]

I would do all lines through central Bristol:

• Patchway/Bristol Parkway - Taunton
• Temple Meads - Chippenham
• Avonmouth Branch

This would allow the Taunton - Cardiff, Weston SM - Parkway and Avonmouth services to be operated by EMUs. Additionally, the London - Bristol IETs would be able to run on wires all the way.

 

[tbtc]

Should all 4 Northern East-West routes (via Huddersfield, Calder Valley, Hope Valley and Tyne Valley) be electrified?

It's odd that the Tyne Valley doesn't feature highly on these discussions - it seems a fairly logical one to do (I'm not aware of any particular problem with tunnels/bridges/ national parks etc that scupper some well intentioned schemes?)

If you accept that the loss of occasional GSW services isn't much of a big deal (especially as it keeps things "neater" for ScotRail/Northern), the only operational problem is the trains that carry on to Sunderland/ Middlesbrough - if you accepted that cutting that link was viable then you could have a half hourly Carlisle - Morpeth EMU, you could encourage the extension of some ECML services to at least Metro Centre - there's a lot to be said for it without even needing to use the "might be handy a couple of weeks a year when another line is closed" justification that people like to throw in to try to bolster weak schemes.

Meanwhile, a lot of the other routes suggested on this thread would need more fundamental changes to services in order for pure EMUs to be feasible.

I thought about doing a thread a couple of years ago along the lines of "poshest places with the roughest trains", after a ride to the beautiful town of Hexham on a 142 (the only other stock that regularly served the place was a 156) - obviously things have changed with 158s now but running the Tyne Valley route with fairly upmarket trains would surely take a lot more traffic off the A69 than Northern currently manage to achieve.

 

[Trainician]

I would electrify the Chiltern main line but yet again that's under East West Rail.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Electrification, if it happens, will come under East West Rail.

Which should happen from the start anyway imho

 

[Trainician]

Also I would electrify the Dudding Hill line even if it means changing the tracks to increase line speed and resignalling which means colour light signals will replace semaphores on the line

 

[D365]

Which should happen from the start anyway imho

Absolutely.

 

[Calum1]

A few off the top pf my head
Liverpool Manchester via Warrington
Wigan Manchester
Maryhill line
Ek Barrhead Kilmarnock Troon

 

[RLBH]

If you accept that the loss of occasional GSW services isn't much of a big deal (especially as it keeps things "neater" for ScotRail/Northern), the only operational problem is the trains that carry on to Sunderland/ Middlesbrough

Why not carry on the electrification that far, then? You could totally eliminate diesel (passenger) haulage in north-eastern England that way, and get the option of running diversions/freight up the Durham Coast as well.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Posted on another thread but I thought worth posting here too.

https://www.parliament.uk/documents...e-session-on-dft-priorities-23102019.docx.pdf

Grant Shapps says there will be substantial electrification to achieve net zero carbon and in considering priorities will take into account those schemes that can be brought forth quickly among others. This should one would think mean those schemes that have already had quite a bit of work done on them.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Also I would electrify the Dudding Hill line even if it means changing the tracks to increase line speed and resignalling which means colour light signals will replace semaphores on the line

A very quiet line with about 20 trains every 24 hours, almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains. I was in Gladstone Park the other day and was most surprised actually to see a train! An empty cement train returning to Hope behind a Class 66 which would not be helped by electrification of the line.

 

[Esker-pades]

A very quiet line with about 20 trains every 24 hours, almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains. I was in Gladstone Park the other day and was most surprised actually to see a train! An empty cement train returning to Hope behind a Class 66 which would not be helped by electrification of the line.

It's a very interesting argument against electrification: "We shouldn't electrify this line because electric trains don't currently run on it".

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It's a very interesting argument against electrification: "We shouldn't electrify this line because electric trains don't currently run on it".

Try again. The case against electrification is that the route carries very little traffic. The supplementary argument is that it's a freight only line, and most if not all of the freight trains using it will be diesel hauled anyway because the destination has no OLE; e.g. the Hope Valley line.

 

[Esker-pades]

Try again. The case against electrification is that the route carries very little traffic. The supplementary argument is that it's a freight only line, and most if not all of the freight trains using it will be diesel hauled anyway because the destination has no OLE; e.g. the Hope Valley line.

The "almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains" section triggered the response. In this case, electrification would coinside with the re-introduction of passenger services, which would nullify your objections.

Currently, there are a lot of lines above it in the elctrification pecking order, and I don't think it should get any priority.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

The "almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains" section triggered the response. In this case, electrification would coinside with the re-introduction of passenger services, which would nullify your objections.

Currently, there are a lot of lines above it in the elctrification pecking order, and I don't think it should get any priority.

There is a mooted scheme to run passenger trains from Hounslow and Kew to Brent Cross. The London local authorities behind the scheme plan to use DMUs. To the best of my knowledge, the only non freight trains using this route are Chiltern empty DMU stock workings to Willesden LMD via Neasden South Junction and Acton Canal Wharf Junction with a reversal at Stonebridge Park.

 

[Peter Kelford]

The "almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains" section triggered the response. In this case, electrification would coinside with the re-introduction of passenger services, which would nullify your objections.

Currently, there are a lot of lines above it in the elctrification pecking order, and I don't think it should get any priority.

We do need electrification on lines like Felixistowe which would allow higher-efficiency electric trains on freight. If we replaced some freight by electric, that would be more efficient and we can replace a less powerful diesel by a faster-accelerating fast freight electric.

There is a mooted scheme to run passenger trains from Hounslow and Kew to Brent Cross. The London local authorities behind the scheme plan to use DMUs. To the best of my knowledge, the only non freight trains using this route are Chiltern empty DMU stock workings to Willesden LMD via Neasden South Junction and Acton Canal Wharf Junction with a reversal at Stonebridge Park.

A lot of chords could do with electrification.

 

[tbtc]

Why not carry on the electrification that far, then? You could totally eliminate diesel (passenger) haulage in north-eastern England that way, and get the option of running diversions/freight up the Durham Coast as well.

Well, yes, I'd be fine with them wiring the Durham Coast (which would also require the lines from Middlesbrough to Bishop Auckland and Thirsk too, I guess - Whitby is too insignificant to wire) - but I'm trying to keep it in the realms of realistic small-ish scale - it's about fifty miles from Gateshead to Carlisle (not "tiny", but not "mega") - rather than converting a whole region (which may mean issues with the section of line shared with the Metro through Sunderland).

Maybe we should restrict these kind of threads to a certain length of electrification (e.g. a hundred miles of single track wiring), to ensure that everyone is talking of roughly the same level of project. Otherwise we are comparing "we should wire the entire XC network" to "we should electrify a short section of branch to Felixstowe".

 

[Railwaysceptic]

A lot of chords could do with electrification.

So? What do you conclude from that?

 

[Peter Kelford]

So? What do you conclude from that?

That this is low-hanging fruit that is easy to achieve but would make relatively large impacts on de-dieselisation.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

That this is low-hanging fruit that is easy to achieve but would make relatively large impacts on de-dieselisation.

I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Very few, if any, of the very few trains using this line terminate in areas with OLE so they will continue with diesel locomotives. We already have diesel hauled freight trains on long stretches of electrified railway but those stretches of track at least have passenger trains and the occasional freight train utilising the electrification. This route would not. It would be a unique and eccentric railway line: an electrified line with not one train using the electrification!

 

[Peter Kelford]

I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Very few, if any, of the very few trains using this line terminate in areas with OLE so they will continue with diesel locomotives. We already have diesel hauled freight trains on long stretches of electrified railway but those stretches of track at least have passenger trains and the occasional freight train utilising the electrification. This route would not. It would a unique and eccentric railway line: an electrified line with not one train using the electrification!

E.g. Felixstowe Branch? Daventry Yard?

 

[Peter Kelford]

I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Very few, if any, of the very few trains using this line terminate in areas with OLE so they will continue with diesel locomotives. We already have diesel hauled freight trains on long stretches of electrified railway but those stretches of track at least have passenger trains and the occasional freight train utilising the electrification. This route would not. It would a unique and eccentric railway line: an electrified line with not one train using the electrification!

E.g. Felixstowe Branch?

I generally meant short lines,

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I generally meant short lines,

That's not what you said earlier. In reference to installing OLE on the Goods Line running from Acton Wells Junction to the MML, you said "That this is low-hanging fruit that is easy to achieve but would make relatively large impacts on de-dieselisation".

However it's already obvious that continuing this debate will be unproductive, so I'm going to bow out.

Report

 

[Trainician]

A very quiet line with about 20 trains every 24 hours, almost all of which are diesel hauled freight trains. I was in Gladstone Park the other day and was most surprised actually to see a train! An empty cement train returning to Hope behind a Class 66 which would not be helped by electrification of the line.

It would be a major interchange line if it gets electrified and upgraded especially if the line
Joins the Great Western Main Line then services can go from the MML to Heathrow Airport and Reading.

 

[Trainician]

It's a very interesting argument against electrification: "We shouldn't electrify this line because electric trains don't currently run on it".

Obviously electric trains don't run on the line because it's not electrified!

 

[Esker-pades]

Obviously electric trains don't run on the line because it's not electrified!

That was the entire point of my post. See discussion in posts #163 - #165.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It would be a major interchange line if it gets electrified and upgraded especially if the line
Joins the Great Western Main Line then services can go from the MML to Heathrow Airport and Reading.

Possibly but not certainly. Can you name any specific traffic flows which would result from electrification of this route?

Long ago, before Crossrail and before the Thameslink expansion, I argued that the line should be electrified and that a flyover should be constructed between West Hampstead and Cricklewood and that a service from somewhere like Orpington should run to Heathrow instead of the
Heathrow Connect service from Paddington. That boat has now sailed of course but it would have been a very good way fully to utilise this underused transport infrastructure.

 

[Bald Rick]

It would be a major interchange line if it gets electrified and upgraded especially if the line
Joins the Great Western Main Line then services can go from the MML to Heathrow Airport and Reading.

Could they? How would the trains get to Heathrow? And which MML stations would they serve?

(Hint: there’s a reason the service is planned to go WestHampstead or Brent Cross to Hounslow)

 

[Whistler40145]

I’d electrify Didcot Parkway to Coventry via Kenilworth

Leamington Spa to Worcester Shrub Hill via Kidderminster

 

[The Ham]

I’d electrify Didcot Parkway to Coventry via Kenilworth

Leamington Spa to Worcester Shrub Hill via Kidderminster

That would bring about two things which would be good:

Firstly it would allow XC to have EMU services between Bournemouth and Manchester freeing up Voyagers for other services. You might have to recast the timetable to get that to work and/or split the Southwest to Manchester at Birmingham with EMU's running the northern section as they Voyagers interwork on both services.

Alternatively you could add in extra electrification from Birmingham to Bristol and have the split at Gloucester/Bristol (or even have an overlap which allows people to change at two or three stations so as to limit the numbers changing trains). Over time the electrification could then move southwards.

Secondly (and more clear cut) would be the ability to have many more local services run as EMU's across Birmingham.

Secondly it would