Which classes may be nearing their end?

[Mikey C]

The 365s are a bit of a special case, finding themselves in the centre of a tangle of factors which just happened to all come together at once.

*The original finance agreement
*Thameslink programme
*ETCS
*GTR
*DOO monitors
*Covid
*Gatwick remodelling
*Boris Johnson
*Lack of electrification
*Surplus EMUs
*SDO needed for Royston-Cambridge

Vary any of these factors and they’d quite possibly have been happily running for another decade or more somewhere.

As I’ve intimated before, all 40 could quite happily have been gainfully employed on GN for some time to come, as things have turned out. They’d also have been quite suitable for the c2c “top-up” fleet.

Also their 3rd rail shoes going missing, as otherwise they'd return south of the river

 

[D365]

I wonder when the 317s will go. It'll mark the end of an era when they do though. Still doesn't make sense to me why younger trains (365s) are being scrapped while there are still 2 GA 317 units and 2 GN 317 units operating on the all-stopping service from London Liverpool Street - Cambridge North/Ely

Because the 720s are replacing them?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Also their 3rd rail shows going missing, as otherwise they'd return south of the river

And if GN had binned them off around 2014 instead, Northern could've gotten them instead of god awful, clapped out, life expired 319s

 

[bramling]

And if GN had binned them off around 2014 instead, Northern could've gotten them instead of god awful, clapped out, life expired 319s

Yes, another thing to add to the list - timings just didn’t match up.

It’s quite surreal that 365s have finished whilst their predecessors on GN, 317s, are still just about going. Especially with the 365 being one of the absolute best trains ever designed and built.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I wonder when the 317s will go. It'll mark the end of an era when they do though. Still doesn't make sense to me why younger trains (365s) are being scrapped while there are still 2 GA 317 units and 2 GN 317 units operating on the all-stopping service from London Liverpool Street - Cambridge North/Ely

Its great they are still out every day given WA side have 30 379's to play with which look woefully under utilised most days.

Long may it continue.

 

[Meglodon 5]

Its great they are still out every day given WA side have 30 379's to play with which look woefully under utilised most days.

Long may it continue.

I completely agree.

 

[phantomphish]

Southern will be retiring the class 455/8 fleet from the May timetable change, with 377's taking over the Metro duties. Opening a thread for any thoughts and discussion about this. The floor is yours.

 

[JonathanH]

Southern will be retiring the class 455/8 fleet from the May timetable change, with 377's taking over the Metro duties. Opening a thread for any thoughts and discussion about this. The floor is yours.

Source? It has been discussed but not seen official confirmation. It would appear to require permanent timetable reductions.

 

[Milo T.K]

Where's the source for this?

 

[YSTrains]

If it is confirmed, wouldnt Southern have a fleet shortage?

 

[phantomphish]

Internal sources, reliable at both high and low level, although admittedly with no documentary evidence to present so far for verification (I couldn't share anything internal with an external audience anyway). I do expect something to creep out into the public domain fairly soon though

 

[D365]

Internal sources, reliable at both high and low level, although admittedly with no documentary evidence to present so far for verification (I couldn't share anything internal with an external audience anyway). I do expect something to creep out into the public domain fairly soon though

Then you might want to be a bit more circumspect...

 

[JonathanH]

The thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-455-diagram-request.228446/ suggests 30 all day diagrams (15 pairs), 6 with limited peak work and 6 spare, leaving 4 for maintenance.

Backfilling 30 455s (assuming the extra turns don't need to be covered) from 377s looks a little tight but I guess the question is how much peak work 377s have lost - eg the former peak trains from London Bridge to Eastbourne and the Arun Valley, Victoria to Caterham / Tattenham Corner - and how much can be spared by lopping units off some other services. This sort of thing was done in the early 1990s - there should be no reason it can't happen now.

 

[43096]

The thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-455-diagram-request.228446/ suggests 30 all day diagrams (15 pairs), 6 with limited peak work and 6 spare, leaving 4 for maintenance.

Backfilling 30 455s (assuming the extra turns don't need to be covered) from 377s looks a little tight but I guess the question is how much peak work 377s have lost - eg the former peak trains from London Bridge to Eastbourne and the Arun Valley, Victoria to Caterham / Tattenham Corner - and how much can be spared by lopping units off some other services. This sort of thing was done in the early 1990s - there should be no reason it can't happen now.

If SWR can lose 259 vehicles from its fleet with no replacement, GTR should be able to cut 184.

Are the 700s fully utilised? If not, then a re-jig of diagrams would free up some 377s. Similarly, SouthEastern should have scope for fleet reductions - moving some 377s back could be an option.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-455-diagram-request.228446/ suggests 30 all day diagrams (15 pairs), 6 with limited peak work and 6 spare, leaving 4 for maintenance.

Backfilling 30 455s (assuming the extra turns don't need to be covered) from 377s looks a little tight but I guess the question is how much peak work 377s have lost - eg the former peak trains from London Bridge to Eastbourne and the Arun Valley, Victoria to Caterham / Tattenham Corner - and how much can be spared by lopping units off some other services. This sort of thing was done in the early 1990s - there should be no reason it can't happen now.

The Milton Keynes route keeps suffering constant cuts too.

 

[JonathanH]

The Milton Keynes route keeps suffering constant cuts too.

Indeed, if that was chopped it would free up 10 units to eliminate 455s.

Perhaps the plans will be a bit clearer when the May 2022 timetable is loaded.