Which real time train running website or app is best?

[AY1975]

Probably the best known real time train running website for the national rail network is Real Time Trains (realtimetrains.co.uk), but there are others such as Open Train Times (opentraintimes.com) and Live Train Times (https://live.rail-record.co.uk).

Which site or app would you say is best? I suppose some sites might be better for the ordinary lay passenger who simply wants to check how their train is running and others might be better for the enthusiast who wants to observe trains, particularly charter or freight trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would recommend using a combination of one of those and one of the systems connected to Darwin, e.g. Railboard. Sometimes multiple sites are useful in working on what's going on if it's a bit complex.

Passengers just wanting to check their train who don't have understanding of the underlying operation really shouldn't use RTT, they'll get confused about what exactly it's telling them and it sometimes lacks information, e.g. sometimes cancellations don't show in its feeds until long after Darwin has them, and similarly sometimes it shows a cancellation but doesn't show a reinstatement. They should stick to feeds with Darwin connections like Railboard or even Trainline (you don't have to pay their fees, you can just use it for information!). Crikey, Trainline showing booked platforms seems to confuse them enough, some seem incapable of reading the word "expected" and checking what it actually is!

I'd love to see Darwin added to RTT which would make it "complete" in information terms, but I seem to recall it wouldn't get access as doing things like showing platforms before they are displayed is noncompliant. I don't know how Trainline works around this.

 

[GB]

OpenTrainTimes is great for maps, but a lot of headcodes (freight and passenger) appear to be unclickable and won't bring up running information. The very few freight headcodes that are able to be clicked just bring up some random passenger train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Traksy is good for maps.

 

[renegademaster]

Rail record has the most direct interface for me. RTT tries to be normie friendly so you got to go through a bunch of hoops just to show freight,

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Traksy is good for maps.

But the displayed codes should be put into RTT, as Traksy often isn't very up to date (still shows Headbolt Lane trains as going to Rainford)

 

[Lucy1501]

I normally use rail record, it’s compact, easy to use and doesn’t dumb it down too much like RTT can. Myself and a few friends have found that it also updates more frequently than other trackers, but you may find it different.

I also go with Traksy for viewing the signal berths in real time.

 

[Gaelan]

For iOS, I swear by Railboard.

For anything else - shameless plug - I've been working on https://trains.gaelan.me, which tries to display Darwin data in a straightforward format.

 

[fandroid]

Sad to say but National Rail Enquiries shows cancellations more accurately than RTT. The latter's failing due to that non-connection to Darwin, I guess

Another issue: I was caught in disruptions from Waterloo last Friday evening. The 20.35 to Weymouth was shown on NRE from fairly early on as additionally stopping at Basingstoke. I checked RTT later to see what its actual arrival time there was and that was only recorded as "passed". But no, I didn't have to jump from a moving train!

 

[Gaelan]

I would recommend using a combination of one of those and one of the systems connected to Darwin, e.g. Railboard. Sometimes multiple sites are useful in working on what's going on if it's a bit complex.

Passengers just wanting to check their train who don't have understanding of the underlying operation really shouldn't use RTT, they'll get confused about what exactly it's telling them and it sometimes lacks information, e.g. sometimes cancellations don't show in its feeds until long after Darwin has them, and similarly sometimes it shows a cancellation but doesn't show a reinstatement. They should stick to feeds with Darwin connections like Railboard or even Trainline (you don't have to pay their fees, you can just use it for information!). Crikey, Trainline showing booked platforms seems to confuse them enough, some seem incapable of reading the word "expected" and checking what it actually is!

I'd love to see Darwin added to RTT which would make it "complete" in information terms, but I seem to recall it wouldn't get access as doing things like showing platforms before they are displayed is noncompliant. I don't know how Trainline works around this.

Agreed.

Getting Darwin access isn't actually difficult - you just sign up, no approval needed.* There are however conditions attached - the one you mentioned about platform numbers, as well as a requirement to display Darwin's estimated times instead of calculating your own, both of which are obviously untenable for RTT.

The rule about platforms does seem to go largely unenforced. I like Railboard's compromise, where they don't show suppressed platforms by default, but you can turn them on in settings after agreeing to a very clear warning that they're subject to change.

*Actually, for some ways of accessing the data, a broken sign-up form means a few emails and several weeks of wait time are involved. But the data in its rawest form is still available with just a sign-up, and even with the manual process the access conditions in principle remain the same.

 

[Robski_]

I'm biased, but I think my app is good (except for some minor visual bugs on iOS which are being fixed, and some associations not showing correctly). Formations are also shown for 17 operators, where there is enough information to determine it. The website version is due to become free to access sometime soon following some efficiency and functional improvements - so not of much use at this time, but maybe in a month. Download links are in my signature below.

I'd love to see Darwin added to RTT which would make it "complete" in information terms, but I seem to recall it wouldn't get access as doing things like showing platforms before they are displayed is noncompliant. I don't know how Trainline works around this.

RTT would have to use timings supplied by National Rail - it's in the licensing agreement. There is also the issue of complying with "suppression" instructions for platform numbers. As far as I know, Trainline doesn't work around it - NR sometimes forget to turn on/restart their Darwin workstations at some stations managed by them (*cough* Kings Cross *cough*), so suppression instructions are not sent (alongside updated platform numbers).

 

[Bletchleyite]

RTT would have to use timings supplied by National Rail - it's in the licensing agreement. There is also the issue of complying with "suppression" instructions for platform numbers. As far as I know, Trainline doesn't work around it - NR sometimes forget to turn on/restart their Darwin workstations at some stations managed by them (*cough* Kings Cross *cough*), so suppression instructions are not sent (alongside updated platform numbers).

Trainline does work around it by showing "predicted" platforms for your booked train if you buy a ticket via them. I'm not sure if they're booked platforms or worked out based on what the train most often does, but it does do it. They're usually correct, too, like RTT usually is, but some people do come unstuck by not checking they haven't changed.

The rule about platforms does seem to go largely unenforced. I like Railboard's compromise, where they don't show suppressed platforms by default, but you can turn them on in settings after agreeing to a very clear warning that they're subject to change.

Ooh, didn't know that, have just turned it on!

 

[Horizon22]

Trainline does work around it by showing "predicted" platforms for your booked train if you buy a ticket via them. I'm not sure if they're booked platforms or worked out based on what the train most often does, but it does do it. They're usually correct, too, like RTT usually is, but some people do come unstuck by not checking they haven't changed.



Ooh, didn't know that, have just turned it on!

If you really want accurate platforms though you probably need a combination of something like RTT so you can work out the headcode of your train, and then a mapping tool to see the headcode in the berth.

Especially at places like London terminals where platforms are regularly manually surpressed by operators and subject to change

 

[Jimini]

If you really want accurate platforms though you probably need a combination of something like RTT so you can work out the headcode of your train, and then a mapping tool to see the headcode in the berth.

Especially at places like London terminals where platforms are regularly manually surpressed by operators and subject to change

That's my usual combo at Euston aye (RTT + Traksy).

 

[swt_passenger]

Rail record has the most direct interface for me. RTT tries to be normie friendly so you got to go through a bunch of hoops just to show freight,

I just switch it to detailed view, which it then consistently defaults to? I’ll accept that some devices may have different behaviour though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you really want accurate platforms though you probably need a combination of something like RTT so you can work out the headcode of your train, and then a mapping tool to see the headcode in the berth.

RTT "goes bold" when the route is set, that's generally good enough, I've only come unstuck with it once when it was a last minute platform alteration (set swap) and I'd stopped checking once I'd sat down, by the time I wondered why I was still on my own it was too late to reach the replatformed train. Wouldn't be possible for that to happen now as they no longer leave sets unstaffed and unlocked at Euston.

I don't know if it's still the case, though, but I recall platforms being totally wrong on RTT at Victoria even after going bold, something I've never seen at any other station. Not sure why that is/was.

 

[virgintrain1]

Tiger Worldline Global.

Then just press mobile view for ordinary paxs.

Used every day of my railway career.

 

[Chris Butler]

I'd really appreciate an explanation of the difference between the feeds/systems that RTT uses versus Darwin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tiger Worldline Global.

Then just press mobile view for ordinary paxs.

Used every day of my railway career.

I do use that one but not every TOC uses the Worldline PIS, in particular all of WMT was lost from there when they stopped using Anne.

 

[Horizon22]

I'd really appreciate an explanation of the difference between the feeds/systems that RTT uses versus Darwin.

Realtime Trains | Data Sources

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Gaelan]

I'd really appreciate an explanation of the difference between the feeds/systems that RTT uses versus Darwin.

RTT is primarily based on two feeds, both provided by Network Rail:

1. TRUST, which is designed to provide a permanent record of train movements for delay attribution and the like
2. TD, the train describer feed - this is the signaling information shown by sites like OTT and Traksy. In many cases, a train is shown as reaching a given point in the TD feeds before it reaches TRUST.

The main problem is that TRUST wasn’t really designed to provide future information, just a record of past events. Some aspects of this are solvable - RTT calculates its own estimated times, for example - but this falls short when future movements can’t be determined from just the train’s past movements, for example because a train will be diverted or part cancelled.

Darwin was developed by “National Rail” (in reality, Thales under contract to RDG) for the express purpose of providing passenger information. It does much the same thing as RTT - consumes the TRUST and TD feeds and extrapolates from there - but has the added benefit that, during disruption, it receives updates directly from TOCs, station control, and the like. TOCs are invested in Darwin’s accuracy, as station departure boards use it - if Darwin has the wrong information, so will passengers about to board the train.

The Open Rail Data wiki summarizes it well, though RTT avoids some of the issues described because it supplements TRUST with TD data:

TRUST vs Darwin - Open Rail Data Wiki

wiki.openraildata.com

 

[Annetts key]

TRUST itself gets some of it’s data from the TD system.

 

[Statto]

For me a combination of Traksy & Realtime Trains, add in Railcam which has good diagrams for tracking live trains too.

 

[Brissle Girl]

For platform information at terminals I use the Open Train Times map to confirm the reporting number of the train is the one I want.

 

[weastebusdepot]

Recently I've tended to increasingly use Fasteroute when I'm working. The way it makes it graphically quick to identify which services are operated by each TOC is helpful. I've noticed an increasing number of station staff use it and also recommend to customers that they ditch Trainline and use that instead.

However it isn't perfect. I don't know if it's a bug, but sometimes it won't load the details for a service that has been cancelled when you want to check the stopping pattern of where it would have gone. I still keep Real Time Trains open since I find the best feature of RTT is being able to look at one service then click on a station part way along the route and view all the other departures around that time that might connect.

 

[Chris Butler]

RTT is primarily based on two feeds, both provided by Network Rail:

1. TRUST, which is designed to provide a permanent record of train movements for delay attribution and the like
2. TD, the train describer feed - this is the signaling information shown by sites like OTT and Traksy. In many cases, a train is shown as reaching a given point in the TD feeds before it reaches TRUST.

The main problem is that TRUST wasn’t really designed to provide future information, just a record of past events. Some aspects of this are solvable - RTT calculates its own estimated times, for example - but this falls short when future movements can’t be determined from just the train’s past movements, for example because a train will be diverted or part cancelled.

Darwin was developed by “National Rail” (in reality, Thales under contract to RDG) for the express purpose of providing passenger information. It does much the same thing as RTT - consumes the TRUST and DA feeds and extrapolates from there - but has the added benefit that, during disruption, it receives updates directly from TOCs, station control, and the like. TOCs are invested in Darwin’s accuracy, as station departure boards use it - if Darwin has the wrong information, so will passengers about to board the train.

The Open Rail Data wiki summarizes it well, though RTT avoids some of the issues described because it supplements TRUST with TD data:

TRUST vs Darwin - Open Rail Data Wiki

wiki.openraildata.com

Thanks so much. Very clear.

 

[Thornaby 37]

OpenTrainTimes is great for maps, but a lot of headcodes (freight and passenger) appear to be unclickable and won't bring up running information. The very few freight headcodes that are able to be clicked just bring up some random passenger train.

There is a way you can often {but not always} get round that problem, but isn't straightforward
1} If there is a train on the same stretch of track which is clickable, click on it
2} Click on a location that the train you are looking for is booked to pass through
3} Look for the headcode of your train and click on it

 

[Gaelan]

There is a way you can often {but not always} get round that problem, but isn't straightforward
1} If there is a train on the same stretch of track which is clickable, click on it
2} Click on a location that the train you are looking for is booked to pass through
3} Look for the headcode of your train and click on it

Or just search for the headcode on RTT!

 

[trainJam]

Live departures info for darwin:

Rail - Live Departures

Rail - Darwin Console

 

[BRX]

The app mentioned here is worth looking at

UK Train Times app (Agant) - at the end of the line?

Can anyone recommend anything for android that's better than the nre app?

www.railforums.co.uk

I was using it quite a bit back then in 2019 while it was still being developed ... then Covid disrupted lots of my travel routines and I haven't really got back to trying it again but I have been meaning to.

It's good for checking things if you have a few specific journeys that you do a lot.

Commuter Train Check - Apps on Google Play

Quickly and easily find out live train times and plan train journeys in the UK.

play.google.com