Which services should be permanently cut to achieve a 10% reduction in railway expenditure?

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but in the real world, white collar workers going to customer meetings, commuting in London aren't going to use a bike… whos really going to turn up as a sweaty wet mess to their office, ir expect a customer to sign a deal with someone in turning up in lycra ?

Are you a bit out of date? White collar workers ae more likely to work from home.

 

[Starmill]

Here are some suggestions which would inconvenience a very, very small proportion of the railway's users:
- Withdraw both of the overnight sleeper services
- Close ticket offices at all but the most major stations, where they'd be converted to open-plan travel information offices (similar to Birmingham International, or your local branch of HSBC)
- Mothball Girvan - Stranraer. This section has almost no potential for growth but very high future costs because it is unable to be converted to battery operation. Overhead wire ectrification from Ayr to Ayr Hospital and battery operation from there to Girvan instead would be the solution. This enables class 156 withdrawal and destaffing of the station and signal boxes

 

[Sm5]

Are you a bit out of date? White collar workers ae more likely to work from home.

Meetings still happen, some still meet.
They just dont get up at 6am every morning and get home at 7pm every weekday anymore.
Thats the reduction, thats why cuts are needed, but a complete 100% wfh forever isnt realistic, but neither is 100% return to office.

 

[irish_rail]

Think it can go further than that…

1. close Epsom downs, low patronage, 1 station is less than a mile from Sutton, the next is in a low population area. Current service is poor and in event of issue its the first Southern cuts
2. close Caterham branch, it runs parallel to the oxted line, some stations are just few steps apart.
3. close Purley Oaks, Coulsdon south,Merstham, all are very close duplications and with minutes drive of alternatives
4. close the Quarry lines, as now theres a fast route from east croydon.
5. Stop Victoria - Reigate, no longer needed.
6. destaff stations between Clapham and East & West Croydon, leave Balham, Epsom and Sutton but destaff the others, same on BML between East Croydon and the South, except East Grinstead, Redhill and Gatwick.
7. cease Redhil to Tonbridge (lightly loaded), cease the daily ECS to London Bridge.. diversions are unicorns, they rarely happen.
8. cease GWR past Redhill, and cease the Brighton workings
9. Turnover WoE to GWR and terminate at Reading, cutting out Waterloo, and Reading-Basingstoke shuttle.
10. consider closing stations within a 7/8 minute drive to other stations where adequate parking exists in a post covid world.
11. cut Thameslink to Sutton, put Sutton-Wimbledon to tram, consider the same for West Croydon to Sutton. Possibly close Epsom to Sutton, and divert London Bridge via Wimbledon, tooting, making Sutton a terminus.
12. cut XC from Bournemouth to Reading.
13. cut XC from Cornwall to Birmingham.
14. close Battersea Park, Queenstown road
15. cut network rail services off the District line from Wimbledon to Putney
16. cut west ealing to Greenford, to tube.
17. cut bourne end to marlow.
18. cut slough to windsor
19. consider closing Fenchurch St, Cannon St, Moorgate (Rail).
20. long term close Marylebone, divert to Old Oak.
21. Destaff tfl rail stations, except the terminators, and tube interchanges.

Point 13. Seriously? Cut out XCs Cornwall to Birmingham service? How the Hell do people get to and from the entire South west? Plymouth, Bristol etc,not worthy of XC services?

Here are some suggestions which would inconvenience a very, very small proportion of the railway's users:
- Withdraw both of the overnight sleeper services
- Close ticket offices at all but the most major stations, where they'd be converted to open-plan travel information offices (similar to Birmingham International, or your local branch of HSBC)
- Mothball Girvan - Stranraer. This section has almost no potential for growth but very high future costs because it is unable to be converted to battery operation. Overhead wire ectrification from Ayr to Ayr Hospital and battery operation from there to Girvan instead would be the solution. This enables class 156 withdrawal and destaffing of the station and signal boxes

Too be fair, the west country sleepers are not nearly as expensive as the Scottish ones, and also, are very well used for much of the year. The Scottish ones probably do need pruning in some way or other, but the south west one is fairly good at being relatively economical (ie it is driven by general GWR drivers and train managers crew it).

 

[Starmill]

Too be fair, the west country sleepers are not nearly as expensive as the Scottish ones, and also, are very well used for much of the year. The Scottish ones probably do need pruning in some way or other, but the south west one is fairly good at being relatively economical (ie it is driven by general GWR drivers and train managers crew it).

But not in the same league as daytime trains. And able to carry only a tiny number of passengers. And with rolling stock which will soon be life expired.

 

[Sm5]

With the Caledonian sleeper i’d go the opposite way and privatise it.
Get a hotel chain to run it like a hotel.

The potential is there, but a government subsidizing a body shop to run a train and dall it a hotel is the wrong approach.

 

[JonathanH]

6. destaff stations between Clapham and East & West Croydon, leave Balham, Epsom and Sutton but destaff the others, same on BML between East Croydon and the South, except East Grinstead, Redhill and Gatwick.

Southern have a fairly high proportion of stations fitted with ticket gates. Now, what you could do is have them remotely monitored at a central location, but I think it would need some sort of redesign that could prevent people charging them, crawling underneath, vaulting them or tailgating.

As London Overground have shown, staffing stations first to last train, with ticket gates, does bring in revenue both from fares, and passengers feeling more comfortable about travelling. (I recognise however that London Overground is highly loss making because of the perverse zonal fares in London.)

1. close Epsom downs, low patronage, 1 station is less than a mile from Sutton, the next is in a low population area. Current service is poor and in event of issue its the first Southern cuts
2. close Caterham branch, it runs parallel to the oxted line, some stations are just few steps apart.

Are you suggesting that the Tattenham Corner line remains open? I would imagine that the Tattenham Corner line loses more money than the Caterham branch.

3. close Purley Oaks, Coulsdon south,Merstham, all are very close duplications and with minutes drive of alternatives

Purley Oaks is admittedly very close to Sanderstead. Coulsdon South is busier than Coulsdon Town. Some parts of Merstham are a fair distance from Redhill. I'm not convinced total closure is sensible. Cutting the service on the Redhill route to a 12-car 700 every half hour off-peak might have some legs if the connections work. The interesting question is whether the sweetener of a through train to Brighton via Redhill might be enough to accept a cut to a 2tph service.

5. Stop Victoria - Reigate, no longer needed.

See above. Cutting the service between Victoria and East Croydon to a train every ten minutes - xx05 Arun Valley, xx15 Littlehampton and xx25 Eastbourne could well be enough off-peak. East Grinstead shuttle from East Croydon.

7. cease Redhil to Tonbridge (lightly loaded), cease the daily ECS to London Bridge.. diversions are unicorns, they rarely happen.
8. cease GWR past Redhill, and cease the Brighton workings

Are you suggesting total closure of Redhill to Tonbridge? Cutting GWR at Redhill would greatly simplify operations. I think it you did so, you could probably go down to 1tph between Guildford and Redhill as it would significantly cut demand on the North Downs Line.

9. Turnover WoE to GWR and terminate at Reading, cutting out Waterloo, and Reading-Basingstoke shuttle.

Might be a problem with platform lengths doing that.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Think it can go further than that…

1. close Epsom downs, low patronage, 1 station is less than a mile from Sutton, the next is in a low population area. Current service is poor and in event of issue its the first Southern cuts

always surprised this one held on

2. close Caterham branch, it runs parallel to the oxted line, some stations are just few steps apart.

theres big populations both sides of the valley so its not poorly used but does have higher costs due to Whyteleafe gatebox needing manning

3. close Purley Oaks, Coulsdon south,Merstham, all are very close duplications and with minutes drive of alternatives

well used

4. close the Quarry lines, as now theres a fast route from east croydon.

suppose you could with Coulsdon and Merstham shut and you pulling

5. Stop Victoria - Reigate, no longer needed.

better used than you think and its only a 4 car not a 12 car thameslink

6. destaff stations between Clapham and East & West Croydon, leave Balham, Epsom and Sutton but destaff the others, same on BML between East Croydon and the South, except East Grinstead, Redhill and Gatwick.
7. cease Redhil to Tonbridge (lightly loaded), cease the daily ECS to London Bridge.. diversions are unicorns, they rarely happen.

diversions at least four times a year but get Southern crews to work them from redhill

8. cease GWR past Redhill, and cease the Brighton workings

agreed

9. Turnover WoE to GWR and terminate at Reading, cutting out Waterloo, and Reading-Basingstoke shuttle.
10. consider closing stations within a 7/8 minute drive to other stations where adequate parking exists in a post covid world.
11. cut Thameslink to Sutton, put Sutton-Wimbledon to tram, consider the same for West Croydon to Sutton. Possibly close Epsom to Sutton, and divert London Bridge via Wimbledon, tooting, making Sutton a terminus.
12. cut XC from Bournemouth to Reading.

XC are having a pretty good go at that

13. cut XC from Cornwall to Birmingham.

as above

14. close Battersea Park, Queenstown road
15. cut network rail services off the District line from Wimbledon to Putney
16. cut west ealing to Greenford, to tube.
17. cut bourne end to marlow.
18. cut slough to windsor
19. consider closing Fenchurch St, Cannon St, Moorgate (Rail).
20. long term close Marylebone, divert to Old Oak.
21. Destaff tfl rail stations, except the terminators, and tube interchanges.

Now you've wiped out South Central division looking forward to seeing your proposals for the South Eastern - how about i start you off
1.Medway Valley
2.Sheerness
3.Ashford-Hastings
4. Faversham to Dover Priory - Canterbury doesn't need two stations!

 

[MontyP]

Think it can go further than that…

1. close Epsom downs, low patronage, 1 station is less than a mile from Sutton, the next is in a low population area. Current service is poor and in event of issue its the first Southern cuts
2. close Caterham branch, it runs parallel to the oxted line, some stations are just few steps apart.
3. close Purley Oaks, Coulsdon south,Merstham, all are very close duplications and with minutes drive of alternatives
4. close the Quarry lines, as now theres a fast route from east croydon.
5. Stop Victoria - Reigate, no longer needed.
6. destaff stations between Clapham and East & West Croydon, leave Balham, Epsom and Sutton but destaff the others, same on BML between East Croydon and the South, except East Grinstead, Redhill and Gatwick.
7. cease Redhil to Tonbridge (lightly loaded), cease the daily ECS to London Bridge.. diversions are unicorns, they rarely happen.
8. cease GWR past Redhill, and cease the Brighton workings
9. Turnover WoE to GWR and terminate at Reading, cutting out Waterloo, and Reading-Basingstoke shuttle.
10. consider closing stations within a 7/8 minute drive to other stations where adequate parking exists in a post covid world.
11. cut Thameslink to Sutton, put Sutton-Wimbledon to tram, consider the same for West Croydon to Sutton. Possibly close Epsom to Sutton, and divert London Bridge via Wimbledon, tooting, making Sutton a terminus.
12. cut XC from Bournemouth to Reading.
13. cut XC from Cornwall to Birmingham.
14. close Battersea Park, Queenstown road
15. cut network rail services off the District line from Wimbledon to Putney
16. cut west ealing to Greenford, to tube.
17. cut bourne end to marlow.
18. cut slough to windsor
19. consider closing Fenchurch St, Cannon St, Moorgate (Rail).
20. long term close Marylebone, divert to Old Oak.
21. Destaff tfl rail stations, except the terminators, and tube interchanges.

11 - agree, but where does the capital come from for the conversion to Tramlink? I can't see how Epsom - London Bridge could run via Wimbledon as it would have to cross the entire 4 track formation between Raynes Park and Wimbledon. Probably better just to terminate it at Wimbledon.

15 - would this actually save anything?

How about running some of the SWR metro services as shuttles? e.g. Hampton Court - Surbiton, Chessington - Motspur or Raynes Park, Shepperton - Kingston or Twickenham. Cut the Guildford via Epsom to Effingham Junction, as Horsley and Clandon don't need 3 or 4 services per hour.

 

[PTR 444]

Before we continue with the South East, how about some “levelling down” in the North so it’s fair for everyone

1. Withdraw TPE Manchester Airport - Newcastle service and reduce Liverpool - Scarborough to a Leeds - Scarborough shuttle
2. Manchester - Windermere to run as a shuttle between Oxenholme and Windermere only
3. Manchester - Barrow in Furness to run between Lancaster and Barrow only
4. Withdraw one of the CLC stoppers from Manchester Oxford Road
5. Curtail Stalybridge - Southport service at Wigan Wallgate
6. Withdraw Manchester Victoria - Preston stopper and put calls in one of the Blackpool services
7. Withdraw the Manchester Piccadilly - Hazel Grove stopper
8. Reduce the Atherton line from 3tph to 2tph
9. Reduce Bradford - Ilkley and Bradford - Skipton from 2tph to 1tph each
10. Terminate all SE - NE XC services at York

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Before we continue with the South East, how about some “levelling down” in the North so it’s fair for everyone

1. Withdraw TPE Manchester Airport - Newcastle service and reduce Liverpool - Scarborough to a Leeds - Scarborough shuttle
2. Manchester - Windermere to run as a shuttle between Oxenholme and Windermere only
3. Manchester - Barrow in Furness to run between Lancaster and Barrow only
4. Withdraw one of the CLC stoppers from Manchester Oxford Road
5. Curtail Stalybridge - Southport service at Wigan Wallgate
6. Withdraw Manchester Victoria - Preston stopper and put calls in one of the Blackpool services
7. Withdraw the Manchester Piccadilly - Hazel Grove stopper
8. Reduce the Atherton line from 3tph to 2tph
9. Reduce Bradford - Ilkley and Bradford - Skipton from 2tph to 1tph each

 

[Bletchleyite]

Before we continue with the South East, how about some “levelling down” in the North so it’s fair for everyone

1. Withdraw TPE Manchester Airport - Newcastle service and reduce Liverpool - Scarborough to a Leeds - Scarborough shuttle
2. Manchester - Windermere to run as a shuttle between Oxenholme and Windermere only
3. Manchester - Barrow in Furness to run between Lancaster and Barrow only
4. Withdraw one of the CLC stoppers from Manchester Oxford Road
5. Curtail Stalybridge - Southport service at Wigan Wallgate
6. Withdraw Manchester Victoria - Preston stopper and put calls in one of the Blackpool services
7. Withdraw the Manchester Piccadilly - Hazel Grove stopper
8. Reduce the Atherton line from 3tph to 2tph
9. Reduce Bradford - Ilkley and Bradford - Skipton from 2tph to 1tph each
10. Terminate all SE - NE XC services at York

Option B+ does a lot of that. I'd not be opposed to Southport down to hourly if it was to Castlefield, that's just "back to 1997".

 

[yorksrob]

This is getting distinctly silly now !

 

[Sm5]

This is getting distinctly silly now !

Bankrupt companies have to go to extremes to save the revenue.

it is a speculative thread.
I think in reality its a non-event, they wont save 10% and will probably spend 20% trying.

The railways need a new Beeching, the public has no appetite for it.
So a lot of hot air will be expended at each proposal, look at SWR with its 3x a day to Bristol, I doubt it will save a penny.

whilst theres some fat outside London theres no escaping the fat that is in London, it was ok when commuters travelled, its not now they arent. Thats going to be a political issue pushed out until after the election for sure.

 

[yorksrob]

Bankrupt companies have to go to extremes to save the revenue.

it is a speculative thread.
I think in reality its a non-event, they wont save 10% and will probably spend 20% trying.

The railways need a new Beeching, the public has no appetite for it.
So a lot of hot air will be expended at each proposal, look at SWR with its 3x a day to Bristol, I doubt it will save a penny.

whilst theres some fat outside London theres no escaping the fat that is in London, it was ok when commuters travelled, its not now they arent. Thats going to be a political issue pushed out until after the election for sure.

A new Beeching is the last thing the Railway needs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A new Beeching is the last thing the Railway needs.

Agreed. Some rebalancing may be needed, but swathes of closures would be very negative.

I would be more in support of branch line closures if it came with quality bus services, but we all know it won't. So this might as well be carforums.co.uk otherwise.

 

[irish_rail]

But not in the same league as daytime trains. And able to carry only a tiny number of passengers. And with rolling stock which will soon be life expired.

And the daytime trains are another string in the sleepers bow, as they are so unbelievably uncomfortable, for what is a 5 hour journey from London to West Cornwall, hence why many feel compelled to take the sleepers.
At least with the Scottish ones, passengers have a choice of Avanti or Lumo for a semi comfortable seat (at least as far as Glasgow / Edinburgh).

 

[Bletchleyite]

And the daytime trains are another string in the sleepers bow, as they are so unbelievably uncomfortable, for what is a 5 hour journey from London to West Cornwall, hence why many feel compelled to take the sleepers.
At least with the Scottish ones, passengers have a choice of Avanti or Lumo for a semi comfortable seat (at least as far as Glasgow / Edinburgh).

I doubt many use the Sleeper in that way. If you don't like Sophias (and I definitely don't), splitting the journey up half way for a walk around (Exeter or Plymouth perhaps, or go via Bristol) works reasonably.

 

[matacaster]

Thinning out commuter services around London is an obvious candidate as the frequency is now unnecessary, but this simply isn't possible up north eg reducing the 1 train per hour Huddersfield to Sheffield, which is reasonably loaded. However, staff cuts generally are a nigh on certainty. Whilst this is very unfortunate for those concerned, unions threatening strike action will simply result in even harsher cuts and job losses ... Remember Arthur Scargill - no government will be held to ransom, particularly after the amount of money invested or promised in near future. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thinning out commuter services around London is an obvious candidate as the frequency is now unnecessary, but this simply isn't possible up north eg reducing the 1 train per hour Huddersfield to Sheffield, which is reasonably loaded. However, staff cuts generally are a nigh on certainty. Whilst this is very unfortunate for those concerned, unions threatening strike action will simply result in even harsher cuts and job losses ... Remember Arthur Scargill - no government will be held to ransom, particularly after the amount of money invested or promised in near future. Be careful what you wish for.

In particular booking offices really are not necessary any more at most stations, because most people book anything vaguely complex online, and a TVM can be used for purchasing simple tickets on the day (e.g. day tickets/returns to Liverpool that are all most Merseyrail booking offices sell most of the time). LU has already realised this. Of course if you're going to close them a strike has no value anyway, it just results in them closing more quickly. You can renew your season at the "big city" destination or even better online by direct debit.

We may need some service cuts, but other staffing should be thinned out before we get to them. And literally everything else should be considered before any significant line closures (i.e. not just tweaking at the almost-unused edges e.g. Berney Arms), because reinstating services and adding station staff is easy to do, if you close a line it's gone for the foreseeable and highly expensive to reinstate.

Here's a saving we could do - only one official booking engine. If others want to do their own on a for-profit basis e.g. Trainsplit, Trainline etc, fine, but there is no need for the TOCs to have their own. The LNER one (seems to be one of the better ones and already done on behalf of the Government) could be repurposed nationally and branded GBR.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thinning out commuter services around London is an obvious candidate as the frequency is now unnecessary, but this simply isn't possible up north eg reducing the 1 train per hour Huddersfield to Sheffield, which is reasonably loaded. However, staff cuts generally are a nigh on certainty. Whilst this is very unfortunate for those concerned, unions threatening strike action will simply result in even harsher cuts and job losses ... Remember Arthur Scargill - no government will be held to ransom, particularly after the amount of money invested or promised in near future. Be careful what you wish for.

Strikes are inevitable and will undoubtedly have been factored in to an extent. I imagine staffing cuts will come first from the parts of the workforce where any strike action will have minimal or no impact. Sad, but probably true.

 

[Meerkat]

Remember Arthur Scargill - no government will be held to ransom, particularly after the amount of money invested or promised in near future. Be careful what you wish for.

Thats an important point. The miners could claim the government wanted to end mining as an industry, this government can point out the billions they are spending on building new railway infrastructure, as well as the billions spent keeping the railways going during Covid.

In particular booking offices really are not necessary any more at most stations, because most people book anything vaguely complex online

I am not at all convinced by this from seeing the people using the booking office at my local station. Lots of railcards and complicated ticket purchases by people wanting to ask a lot of questions. However there might be an argument for combining that role with the bored people standing at the gateline.

 

[JonathanH]

In particular booking offices really are not necessary any more at most stations, because most people book anything vaguely complex online, and a TVM can be used for purchasing simple tickets on the day (e.g. day tickets/returns to Liverpool that are all most Merseyrail booking offices sell most of the time). LU has already realised this. Of course if you're going to close them a strike has no value anyway, it just results in them closing more quickly. You can renew your season at the "big city" destination or even better online by direct debit.

...and even less necessary once we have PAYG for local fares, like in London, and a simplified single-leg pricing structure on that model.

As you say, season tickets could quite easily be made online only, or simply withdrawn in favour of weekly (or possibly monthly) capping on the PAYG fares.

I am not at all convinced by this from seeing the people using the booking office at my local station. Lots of railcards and complicated ticket purchases by people wanting to ask a lot of questions. However there might be an argument for combining that role with the bored people standing at the gateline.

The point is that in a PAYG future, there won't be any complicated tickets for the ticket office to sell. There will be a need for gateline staff and people to assist and direct passengers but once the ticket structure is simplified, no ticket office is needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not at all convinced by this from seeing the people using the booking office at my local station. Lots of railcards and complicated ticket purchases by people wanting to ask a lot of questions.

People are using booking offices, yes. The things that are important to consider are whether they need to use them or could purchase another way (e.g. Railcards and Rovers online or by post or telephone if you're really old fashioned), whether some of the "complicated ticket purchases" could be simplified out by biting the bullet on fares simplification, and whether the remaining purchases could be dealt with a different way, e.g. at the first major interchange or at the big-city destination, particularly if you put a formal process in place to allow people to buy a single to the interchange from the TVM and then trade it in for what they wanted when they got there. (That was supposed to be the case for years but there wasn't a proper mechanism to do it unless it was the same TOC in which case they could non-issue it).

Very few journeys are from a middle-of-nowhere station to a middle-of-nowhere station without at least going via a bigger one, and operating booking offices purely to deal with those probably costs more than just accepting a relatively high level of evasion on them given their generally low fares, with very occasional Penalty Fare blitzes which will scare many into paying and at least take a decent sum off those you won't.

However there might be an argument for combining that role with the bored people standing at the gateline.

Interestingly at a number of the 1980s build stations in the North West this was the case under BR. Certainly Rochdale and whichever of Brinnington or Bredbury has that style of building used to have a layout where incoming passengers were filtered via the booking office window and a narrow, traditional turnstile which would be released by a button inside the booking office having sold or checked a ticket. You also had a sort of similar arrangement at most Merseyrail stations where entry involved walking past the booking office window and they would certainly at least attempt to shout you back (if not give chase) if you didn't buy or show a ticket, Old Roan used to be like that in my yoof.

It would be very easy for Bletchley to be worked that way as one of the booking office windows has full view of the gateline. I really don't understand why it isn't.

 

[JonathanH]

It would be very easy for Bletchley to be worked that way as one of the booking office windows has full view of the gateline. I really don't understand why it isn't.

Yes, I have never understood this - it is done at Beaconsfield with the barriers in full sight of the ticket office. There is no need to employ a separate gateline attendant and ticket office person.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I have never understood this - it is done at Beaconsfield with the barriers in full sight of the ticket office. There is no need to employ a separate gateline attendant and ticket office person.

Slough on the offside too if I recall.

 

[MontyP]

Thinning out commuter services around London is an obvious candidate as the frequency is now unnecessary, but this simply isn't possible up north eg reducing the 1 train per hour Huddersfield to Sheffield, which is reasonably loaded. However, staff cuts generally are a nigh on certainty. Whilst this is very unfortunate for those concerned, unions threatening strike action will simply result in even harsher cuts and job losses ... Remember Arthur Scargill - no government will be held to ransom, particularly after the amount of money invested or promised in near future. Be careful what you wish for.

The problem in my area (SWR metro / commuter land) is that what appear to be very high frequency services (e.g. 16 per hour off peak from Wimbledon to Waterloo pre-Covid) is in fact 8 different services with 2ph on each. Cutting any of these from 2ph to 1ph is a 50% cut, which doesn't go down well with the affected stations (Worcester Park, Bookham, Dorking etc). Hence my earlier suggestion to cut some of the branches to shuttles but maintain at least 2 per hour on each of the main trunks (Epsom, Surbiton, Kingston) so that every station keeps 2ph even if some journeys then require a change. It would however need a full timetable recast and potentially some infrastructure work to allow turnbacks for the shuttle services at intermediate stations.

 

[AM9]

I am not at all convinced by this from seeing the people using the booking office at my local station. Lots of railcards and complicated ticket purchases by people wanting to ask a lot of questions. However there might be an argument for combining that role with the bored people standing at the gateline.

Sounds like St Albans City. At least two on the gateline all the manned time who have a burst of activity when a train comes in then return to their conversations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem in my area (SWR metro / commuter land) is that what appear to be very high frequency services (e.g. 16 per hour off peak from Wimbledon to Waterloo pre-Covid) is in fact 8 different services with 2ph on each. Cutting any of these from 2ph to 1ph is a 50% cut, which doesn't go down well with the affected stations (Worcester Park, Bookham, Dorking etc). Hence my earlier suggestion to cut some of the branches to shuttles but maintain at least 2 per hour on each of the main trunks (Epsom, Surbiton, Kingston) so that every station keeps 2ph even if some journeys then require a change. It would however need a full timetable recast and potentially some infrastructure work to allow turnbacks for the shuttle services at intermediate stations.

If this is long-term, where you have a split into two with neither more significant than the other it would make sense to look at one of the Takt approaches Switzerland uses, which would be to run 1tph direct on each branch, and the other 1tph as a shuttle. That does however require a branch platform or at least a reversing siding (the latter actually better as both connections can be same platform) so wouldn't work everywhere.

If one is much more significant than the other than a pure shuttle makes more sense - for instance, if the politics could be overcome, the very quiet Ellesmere Port service should probably be run as a half hourly shuttle to Hooton, with Chester getting the direct services. A couple of through peak extras could be considered if necessary.

 

[JonathanH]

Cutting any of these from 2ph to 1ph is a 50% cut, which doesn't go down well with the affected stations (Worcester Park, Bookham, Dorking etc)

There is still plenty of rationalisation possible though.

The SWR metro routes can be fairly easily cut back to:
Waterloo to Woking
Waterloo to Guildford via Surbiton
Waterloo to Effingham Junction (1tph) / Epsom (1tph)
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Kingston / Richmond rounder
Surbiton to Hampton Court
Kingston to Shepperton

Dorking only needs the Southern service on a 2tph basis, there is no need for SWR to go there. That still gives a service every six minutes through Wimbledon.

2tph to each of Reading / Windsor / Weybridge via Hounslow plus the Kingston service via Richmond on the Windsor side.