Which train gets to leave the station first?

[55018ballymoss]

Regulating is not as simple as TOC Driver describes. Certainly our latest instructions regarding how to regulate so we achieve more trains arriving within PPM do not agree with the assertion that Class 1 trains always have priority!

 

[JackClare]

Stockport can be rather fun! When I'm on the 19:49 ATW service from Hereford to Manchester Piccadilly often arrives at Stockport at about 21:57-ish. The 19:57 Virgin service from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly is due to depart Stockport at 21:57, however the Virgin service is almost always running late due to some reason or another. Us, on the ATW service tend to go on the slow line whilst the Virgin service is on the fast line about 4 minutes behind us. Despite this, we still have to wait near the junction with the Styal Line to let the Virgin service go past so we can move onto the fast line, despite us being 4 minutes ahead of it. Bloody trains

 

[D1009]

Class 1 services will always be given priority over class 2, even if that class 1 is a few minutes late. Always stay on a class 1 service if you have a choice, even if it's late! Quite often I'm made late heading into Manchester by being held up for a late running class one service

That is no longer a general rule. It's quite normal at Wolverhampton to be on a late running VT service from Scotland, and to watch the LM stopper depart from the bay for New St and Walsall in front of you. You then have a very slow run to Birmingham. The problem is that where you have a series of late running trains you can't hold the stoppers for all of them, otherwise it causes even more chaos.

 

[TOCDriver]

That is no longer a general rule. It's quite normal at Wolverhampton to be on a late running VT service from Scotland, and to watch the LM stopper depart from the bay for New St and Walsall in front of you. You then have a very slow run to Birmingham. The problem is that where you have a series of late running trains you can't hold the stoppers for all of them, otherwise it causes even more chaos.

Well I wish you would tell the Piccadilly signallers this!

 

[Aictos]

As a dispatcher, if I have two trains to dispatch and one is late I will give preference to the one that's on time first as I've only delayed one train and not two trains.

Take Peterborough where FCC's often get held up by late running East Coast services at Fletton Junction now in my view I rather the on time FCC was left to run on time as it's acceleration is pretty good and can soon be away if left to it and let the late East Coast follow the FCC to Huntingdon simply because the East Coast has plenty of recovery time at Kings Cross whereas the FCC might not.

 

[Tomnick]

Isn't that sort of regulating decision best made by the signalman, in possession of a better view of the big picture? After all, he's the one who'll be dobbed with the O-code for wrong regulation.

 

[Darren R]

A situation developed on my local line on Friday which made me wonder who would make the initial regulating decision. (I was going to anonymise the locale - but reading previous postings no-one else has bothered!)

Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe services traverse the single track section between Bromley Cross and Darwen, taking 12 minutes to do so. At peak times there is a half-hourly service in both directions, up and down trains passing at both Bromley Cross and Darwen. Entrance to the single track section at the southern (Bromley Cross) end is controlled from Manchester Piccadilly SC, operated locally by Bromley Cross fringe SB. About half way along the single track section, control passes to Preston PSB.

So - there is an on-time 'Up' train standing at Darwen and at the same time there is also a 'Down' train standing at Bromley Cross, which has already been waiting at the signal there for 15 minutes because the previous 'Up' train was delayed in the single-track section. Who makes the decision as to which goes through first? Or would it be a decision made by Northern as the TOC, or by someone further up the NetworkRail food-chain than the local signallers?

This was the situation during Friday morning's rush hour, resolved by the on-time 'Up' train getting the nod first, resulting in a 30 minute delay to the 'Down' train already waiting at Bromley Cross. This delayed the next 'Down' train waiting behind it, and the next 'Up' service waiting at Darwen, which in turn..... you can see where I'm heading!

I'm not criticising the decision (I realise there are any number of things that I couldn't possibly know), and nor am I having a whinge - these things happen. But it did make me wonder about the decision-making process in these circumstances. In this instance - though a combination of short turn-around times, largely self-contained diagrams and three single-track sections - the delays ended up shuttling back up and down the line all day, with each delay resulting in another delay in the opposite direction.

 

[D1009]

A situation developed on my local line on Friday which made me wonder who would make the initial regulating decision. (I was going to anonymise the locale - but reading previous postings no-one else has bothered!)

Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe services traverse the single track section between Bromley Cross and Darwen, taking 12 minutes to do so. At peak times there is a half-hourly service in both directions, up and down trains passing at both Bromley Cross and Darwen. Entrance to the single track section at the southern (Bromley Cross) end is controlled from Manchester Piccadilly SC, operated locally by Bromley Cross fringe SB. About half way along the single track section, control passes to Preston PSB.

So - there is an on-time 'Up' train standing at Darwen and at the same time there is also a 'Down' train standing at Bromley Cross, which has already been waiting at the signal there for 15 minutes because the previous 'Up' train was delayed in the single-track section. Who makes the decision as to which goes through first? Or would it be a decision made by Northern as the TOC, or by someone further up the NetworkRail food-chain than the local signallers?

This was the situation during Friday morning's rush hour, resolved by the on-time 'Up' train getting the nod first, resulting in a 30 minute delay to the 'Down' train already waiting at Bromley Cross. This delayed the next 'Down' train waiting behind it, and the next 'Up' service waiting at Darwen, which in turn..... you can see where I'm heading!

I'm not criticising the decision (I realise there are any number of things that I couldn't possibly know), and nor am I having a whinge - these things happen. But it did make me wonder about the decision-making process in these circumstances. In this instance - though a combination of short turn-around times, largely self-contained diagrams and three single-track sections - the delays ended up shuttling back up and down the line all day, with each delay resulting in another delay in the opposite direction.

I'm not familiar with the current operating practices on that particular route, but normally a situation like that would be resolved by something being cancelled or terminated short in order to get the service back on time. During peak periods the passenger flow on most routes is one way, so trains in that direction are prioritised. Decisions are taken by NR controls liaising with TOC controls to establish the least disruptive way of doing it, and usually there is never an ideal solution.