Which train has the worst first class?

[Starmill]

First Class in a 450 was almost indistinguishable from standard class in a class 377/5, and many other similar units. It has been refurbished, thus splitting it up into two areas of 8 seats at remote ends of the train. The seats are mostly the same but with leather-plastic cover rather than a soft moquette. The only change in configuration is that you can no longer have an airline seat and if 8 people are occupying First Class you must walk to the other end of the train to find a seat.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

First Class in a 450 was almost indistinguishable from standard class in a class 377/5, and many other similar units. It has been refurbished, thus splitting it up into two areas of 8 seats at remote ends of the train. The seats are mostly the same but with leather-plastic cover rather than a soft moquette. The only change in configuration is that you can no longer have an airline seat and if 8 people are occupying First Class you must walk to the other end of the train to find a seat.

There's also larger tables, with wireless charging integrated into the table if you have a compatible phone.

 

[Prestige15]

Based of the fact the 377's first class seats are the same i would referrer the first class as 'quiet class' concidering it has doors that seperate from standard class .

 

[Ethano92]

if 8 people are occupying First Class you must walk to the other end of the train to find a seat.

Since the majority of desiros operate in multiple, this was no different pre-refurbishment when people had to choose between 3 different first class sections on a 12 coach train, the number has now only increased by 1 since there isn't really much of a walk between the ends of connected units.

Off peak I'd say 700s first class is a scam. Mostly because you can walk to the back of the train and get the exact same seat although during peak times, commuters are well aware of the declassification and so it's often full.

There really needs to be a differentiation between SE commuter train first class and the full complimentary drinks etc, 2+1 first class on longer distance services.

If first class offerings that just add "1st" stickers on the wall can truly be justified then sure, keep it but TOCs should have to brand it something different.

 

[bramling]

Since the majority of desiros operate in multiple, this was no different pre-refurbishment when people had to choose between 3 different first class sections on a 12 coach train, the number has now only increased by 1 since there isn't really much of a walk between the ends of connected units.

Off peak I'd say 700s first class is a scam. Mostly because you can walk to the back of the train and get the exact same seat although during peak times, commuters are well aware of the declassification and so it's often full.

There really needs to be a differentiation between SE commuter train first class and the full complimentary drinks etc, 2+1 first class on longer distance services.

If first class offerings that just add "1st" stickers on the wall can truly be justified then sure, keep it but TOCs should have to brand it something different.

I wouldn’t say the 700s are one of the worst offenders. Whilst it’s true about the declassification at the rear, as you say this can often be quite busy. With the walk-through design of the train, real first does at least offer a potential haven from noise and disturbance. And of course it does offer a substantially better level of comfort than the rest of the train - better seats with more room and facilities. Indeed the seats immediately adjacent to the cab aren’t bad, almost feeling like a private compartment compared to the rest of the train.

 

[Thunderer]

My choices are the IEP and Cross-Country 170's and Voyagers. Cheap plastic interior, horrible window blinds and in the case of the IEP, uncomfortable seats that are anything but luxury 1st class.
Cross-Country 1st class is poor value for money (especially at Weekends) grossly overpriced for the experience and environment provided.
In the 1980's and 1990's First Class was much better, more comfortable on HST's, 225 sets and loco-hauled Mk 2 stock. GWR now have less 1st class capacity than ever before (HST's used to be 2.5 mk3 coaches, which was reduced to 1.5 mk3 coaches before they stepped down) - I think GWR and other operators have delibrately lowered the quality of the 1st class offering so that less people use it, giving the operators the perfect excuse to abolish the 1st class offering completely. I personally enjoy using 1st Class for longer journeys, as it offers a more relaxed environment away from screaming kids and drunken idiots and bad behaviour (most of the time), plus the seats tend to be bigger and recline with more leg space, meaning more space and comfort, ideal for long journeys. My worry is the constant debasing of 1st Class coupled with extortionate prices will see this option for longer journeys in comfort disappear and more people taking to their cars instead.

 

[D6700]

Don’t see why 2+2 is such an issue. 365 first is 2+2 and is generally well regarded - indeed good enough for the Queen.

She is very small, though! But even she draws the line with 387's...

 

[RealTrains07]

The 800s have the worst first class. Seats are awful and when inside its looks the same as standard. You cant really tell its first class apart from the labels on the doors and the headrests which say “first class”

 

[Clansman]

The infamous 380 first class attempt has to go down as the worst. Even worse than the GTR examples.

 

[Prestige15]

Does anyone had any thoughts about the class 180's first class? Base of the photos they do look more firm as they look

 

[Rich McLean]

Don't forget that first class on many London Commuter trains, such as 387s are essentially only there to enable passegers to pay a bit more to ensure they have a seat.

 

[Failed Unit]

Don't forget that first class on many London Commuter trains, such as 387s are essentially only there to enable passegers to pay a bit more to ensure they have a seat.

The thing is a little,

Cambridge - London Kings Cross (Peak-day) - £45.20
Cambridge - London Kings Cross (Peak-day 1st) - £71.20
Cambridge - London Kings Cross (Super-Off Peak day return) - £25.40
Cambridge - London Kings Cross (Super-Off Peak day return) - £40.60

I guess people will debate what is a little here. Actaully I don't consider the difference that much between the super-off peak. However as it is an hours journey into Kings Cross and the 387s don't have 1st Class (and are rarely full) - I don't think I would pay the extra. In the peak from what Ian87 states earlier up the thread the extra £26 isn't worth it either as you norammylget a seat. I suspect that the difference needs to be closer for people to pay the extra (or have a real difference between 1st and Standard)

I suspect most routes on NSE are similar differences in price and lack of extra quality.

 

[NewSt]

The 800s have the worst first class. Seats are awful and when inside its looks the same as standard. You cant really tell its first class apart from the labels on the doors and the headrests which say “first class”

@RealTrains07 they’re identical, aren’t they! No difference whatsoever - someone would probably sit in there thinking it’s standard!

 

[Bletchleyite]

View attachment 69829 View attachment 69830

@RealTrains07 they’re identical, aren’t they! No difference whatsoever - someone would probably sit in there thinking it’s standard!

How are they identical? They are wider, the headrest is different and it's 2+1.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Defeats the point, I travel first class for a more peaceful journey, yet on such trains you can still be subjected to screaming children.

I travel first class with my 15-month-old daughter. You've been warned

@RealTrains07 they’re identical, aren’t they!

The seats are wider, they're 2+1, they recline and they've got different headrests. Other than that, identical(!)

You might not *like* the 800 1st class seats, but they're clearly not standard seats.

 

[thenorthern]

Back in 2003 I remember traveling on a ScotRail Class 156 to Livingston North on what was then the Edinburgh to Bathgate line and it had first class although the first class on the train seemed worse than standard class as the tables were some odd type of wood. Also the interior of the train hadn't been updated since the 1980s.

 

[hexagon789]

Back in 2003 I remember traveling on a ScotRail Class 156 to Livingston North on what was then the Edinburgh to Bathgate line and it had first class although the first class on the train seemed worse than standard class as the tables were some odd type of wood. Also the interior of the train hadn't been updated since the 1980s.

ScotRail 156s have never had first class, I think you are thinking of a 158?

These had a small first class section added as an afterthought at ScotRail management insistence before entering service in late-1990. They originally had 15 seats arranged 2+2 with a partition and door.

This was refurbished under NatEx I believe to give 14 seats and a luggage stack, with the 3 tables having a table lamp with power socket added. They also seemed to lose the proper partition in favour of a open divider.

 

[hexagon789]

Not a great shot as it's out of a book, but I think this could take the award for the worst proper InterCity train First Class:

 

[superalbs]

Not a great shot as it's out of a book, but I think this could take the award for the worst proper InterCity train First Class:

View attachment 69849

What was the deal with that?

 

[hexagon789]

What was the deal with that?

An Irish Rail pseudo-First/up-classed Standard Mark 3.

The original order had only two Firsts, which proved insufficient for demand and so some standards were up-classed purely by the addition of yellow curtains and antimacassars on the headrests for a brief period with one even gaining exterior branding. This lasted at least from 1984-1987, when an additional First entered service.

 

[Grannyjoans]

Unlike most trains the guard can control it, if that's useful?

Maybe that's a downside ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

An Irish Rail pseudo-First/up-classed Standard Mark 3.

The original order had only two Firsts, which proved insufficient for demand and so some standards were up-classed purely by the addition of yellow curtains and antimacassars on the headrests for a brief period with one even gaining exterior branding. This lasted at least from 1984-1987, when an additional First entered service.

Southern would be proud of that. Crikey, were they too lazy to get the spanner out and respace the seats even if they left it as IC70s?

 

[hexagon789]

Southern would be proud of that. Crikey, were they too lazy to get the spanner out and respace the seats even if they left it as IC70s?

Yes, but then the full Firsts of the time were 2+2 seating, simply all at tables, a full vehicle seating 64 against 48 for a BR Mk3 first. The branding of the time called it Super Standard.

It was rectified when 3 standards were converted to the CityGold vehicles in 1993, those were I would argue even more luxurious than a BR Mk3b Pullman Open First.

 

[Iskra]

I travel first class with my 15-month-old daughter. You've been warned



The seats are wider, they're 2+1, they recline and they've got different headrests. Other than that, identical(!)

You might not *like* the 800 1st class seats, but they're clearly not standard seats.

I have no issue with the children, it’s the parents that don’t attend to them/let them run riot that are the issue. I’ve travelled in first class with young children present and experienced no issues. Sadly, I can’t say the same for my STD journeys.

 

[GrimShady]

Unlike most trains the guard can control it, if that's useful?

I always assumed it was one the Coach K "Dirty Tricks"

 

[GrimShady]

I have no issue with the children, it’s the parents that don’t attend to them/let them run riot that are the issue. I’ve travelled in first class with young children present and experienced no issues. Sadly, I can’t say the same for my STD journeys.

Agreed however the worst is the screaming babies in FC. I also bore witness to the changing of a soiled nappy on a EC service once. What is wrong with people??

 

[NewSt]

How are they identical? They are wider, the headrest is different and it's 2+1.

The seats are wider, they're 2+1, they recline and they've got different headrests. Other than that, identical(!)

You might not *like* the 800 1st class seats, but they're clearly not standard seats.

I was being sarcastic, there's a very visible difference between First and Standard class on 800s and 802s. And, for the record, I quite like 800/801/802 first class seats.