Which trains serving Potters Bar are allocated to Class 317s?

[317 forever]

I notice that faster trains from King's Cross to Potters Bar continue to Cambridge or Peterborough, alongside slower trains at least at weekends.

Do these faster trains tend to be class 317s or are they usually class 365s? I shall be in the area one Saturday in late summer at least to ride buses, and hope to ride an FCC class 317 then too!

 

[causton]

In my experience... it's pot luck! Don't you love the 365s as well though?

 

[317 forever]

The 365s are quite cumfy, but as they are similar to class 465s that I often ride with SouthEastern, I prefer the novelty of class 317s. These have been my fave multiple units ever since new!

 

[317666]

Generally it's pot luck unless you know the diagrams, and on a weekday your best bet of finding one is during peak hours. As far as I know there are two Saturday 317 diagrams though, which are as follows:

06:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 08:19
08:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 10:06
10:18 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 11:49
12:06 London Kings Cross - Cambridge 13:26
13:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 15:17
15:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 17:06
17:18 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 18:49
19:06 London Kings Cross - Cambridge 20:26

15:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 17:18
17:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 19:06
19:16 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 20:48
21:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 23:04

Hope these help

And no, I don't love the 365s!

 

[Keith Jarrett]

The diagrams for GN 317s can normally be found in the files section of the ukmodernemus yahoo group. Tjhere is also a prolific p[oster on the group who reports most GN 317 workings. From those diagrams you should be able to work out which of the trains stop at Potters Bar. Also if you dig around the individual workings on real time trains, some show up as being timed for Class 317s but I am not ure how accurate that is in relation to specific workings.

 

[317666]

The diagrams for GN 317s can normally be found in the files section of the ukmodernemus yahoo group. Tjhere is also a prolific p[oster on the group who reports most GN 317 workings. From those diagrams you should be able to work out which of the trains stop at Potters Bar. Also if you dig around the individual workings on real time trains, some show up as being timed for Class 317s but I am not ure how accurate that is in relation to specific workings.

UKModernEMUs is where I found the diagrams I posted above, forgot to mention

As for Real Time Trains, I wouldn't trust the information from that. It seems to show almost all slow Cambridge services as 317s when it's actually a mix of those, 321s and 365s, and it also shows some Liverpool Street services which I know for a fact are 379s as 317s too.

 

[Searle]

The general rule of thumb I've got is that 317's do the stoppers to Peterborough (eg. Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield, WGC, Welwyn North, Knebworth, Stevenage), whereas the 365's do the fasts from FPK to SVG, and most of the services to Cambridge (stopping at PBO or not) are 365's. That's just a rule of thumb I've made from observations and could certainly be wrong though

 

[jon0844]

In my experience that is true. In the rush hour, the semi-fast services that only go so far as WGC will be 313s or 321s (hence declassified when it's a 321!) and for the last services, it will almost certainly be a 365 (and 313s for the all stations to WGC or Hertford).

It might be random throughout the day for all I know, but in the peaks it's pretty consistent and you'll get the same class turn up every day, whether to WGC, Letchworth, Peterborough or Foxton (Cambridge). A while ago, when the 321s had just arrived, it was possible to see a 365 replaced with a 321 on occasion but I don't think that happens now.

 

[317 forever]

Thank you for all of you who have responded. I have just applied to join UKmodernEMUs. I note that there is a distinction between the rolling stock and its allocations, so shall post threads like these here in future.

 

[317 forever]

Further to your timings above 317666, I could find the 0655 from Cambridge to Potters Bar or King's Cross useful. (I have the Cambridge Busway and assorted buses in north London to ride). I plan this for August (not the Bank Holiday weekend) so sincerely hope it is still a 317, even after the May timetable change!

 

[bILLOO]

On a related(ish) note, are the 317s and/or 365s timetabled to ever serve Hertford North?

 

[A-driver]

On a related(ish) note, are the 317s and/or 365s timetabled to ever serve Hertford North?

317s work a few up services in the late evening-cant remember exact times without looking at driver diagrams but I'm pretty certain the 2115 and 2315 off of letchworh A/D to kings x via Hertford are 317s.

Only 365s round there are during disruption or diversion-365s can't stop at stations like Hornsey (down), grange park (up), crewes hill (both directions), bayford (up) or also wellham green on the mainline (down direction).

Although the late night train(think its around 0106) semifast kings x-Royston via Hertford can sometimes be a 365 as it misses the above stops out.

 

[Aictos]

317s work a few up services in the late evening-cant remember exact times without looking at driver diagrams but I'm pretty certain the 2115 and 2315 off of letchworh A/D to kings x via Hertford are 317s.

Only 365s round there are during disruption or diversion-365s can't stop at stations like Hornsey (down), grange park (up), crewes hill (both directions), bayford (up) or also wellham green on the mainline (down direction).

Although the late night train(think its around 0106) semifast kings x-Royston via Hertford can sometimes be a 365 as it misses the above stops out.

Just to confirm the 21:20/23:20 Letchworth Garden City to Kings Cross via Hertford North are booked as 317s, I have known the 21:20 to have a 365 standing in for a 317 once calling all stations as I was using that service - strange but it has happened.

Also the 01:06 Kings Cross to Royston via Hertford North is booked as a 365 as it's the return working of the 22:28 Kings Lynn to Kings Cross via Welwyn Garden City.

Also the 03:25 Peterborough to Kings Cross via Hertford North is always booked as a 365 although sometimes a 317 can rarely be seen on this service.

 

[317 forever]

Generally it's pot luck unless you know the diagrams, and on a weekday your best bet of finding one is during peak hours. As far as I know there are two Saturday 317 diagrams though, which are as follows:

06:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 08:19
08:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 10:06
10:18 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 11:49
12:06 London Kings Cross - Cambridge 13:26
13:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 15:17
15:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 17:06
17:18 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 18:49
19:06 London Kings Cross - Cambridge 20:26

15:55 Cambridge - London Kings Cross 17:18
17:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 19:06
19:16 Peterborough - London Kings Cross 20:48
21:36 London Kings Cross - Peterborough 23:04

Hope these help

And no, I don't love the 365s!

Thanks again for such a clear list. My application to join Yahoo groups was declined. Now that I am definitely spending a Friday night in Cambridge in August, I am wondering whether these timings are still the same in the new timetable?

Thank you for any further help you can offer!

 

[Class377/5]

The diagrams for GN 317s can normally be found in the files section of the ukmodernemus yahoo group. Tjhere is also a prolific p[oster on the group who reports most GN 317 workings. From those diagrams you should be able to work out which of the trains stop at Potters Bar. Also if you dig around the individual workings on real time trains, some show up as being timed for Class 317s but I am not ure how accurate that is in relation to specific workings.

The unit shown is for the slowest train so the timings are correct. The 365 will out perform the 317 timings but have longer dwell or standing time as a result. Thmeslink's the same with every thing shown as 319 as its timed correctly for the slower stock.

 

[A-driver]

The unit shown is for the slowest train so the timings are correct. The 365 will out perform the 317 timings but have longer dwell or standing time as a result. Thmeslink's the same with every thing shown as 319 as its timed correctly for the slower stock.

Not quite. There are trains timed for 365s and some diagrammed for 317/21s which take into account the lower speeds achievable especially on the fast line between wood green & Hatfield where a 365 will get 100 whilst a 317/21 will struggle with 85. But 365s certainly don't run to 317/21 timings.

But potters bar-finsbury park in the up also has 2 different timings (about 8 mins or about 12) depending on weather you are booked fast or slow line.

If Specifically looking for 317 diagrams it can vary depending on stock availability-there are 317 diagrams often worked by 365s aswell as 365 diagrams sometimes worked by 317/21s or whatever they have avaliable on the day. A number of trains (mainly the late evening ones) also use different stock on Fridays to during the week.

 

[Class377/5]

Not quite. There are trains timed for 365s and some diagrammed for 317/21s which take into account the lower speeds achievable especially on the fast line between wood green & Hatfield where a 365 will get 100 whilst a 317/21 will struggle with 85. But 365s certainly don't run to 317/21 timings.

But potters bar-finsbury park in the up also has 2 different timings (about 8 mins or about 12) depending on weather you are booked fast or slow line.

If Specifically looking for 317 diagrams it can vary depending on stock availability-there are 317 diagrams often worked by 365s aswell as 365 diagrams sometimes worked by 317/21s or whatever they have avaliable on the day. A number of trains (mainly the late evening ones) also use different stock on Fridays to during the week.

That sort of what I was meaning. I should have put the slowest expected stock to do that service. Of course different line, routing etc will affect timings.

Not fully aware of all the speeds on GN but interesting to see much difference from parallel lines or is this including station stops?

 

[A-driver]

That sort of what I was meaning. I should have put the slowest expected stock to do that service. Of course different line, routing etc will affect timings.

Not fully aware of all the speeds on GN but interesting to see much difference from parallel lines or is this including station stops?

If you mean the speeds on the up line then its down hill all the way from potters bar so if you go out on the fast its 100 all the way to finsbury just about. If you go on the slow then from potters bar its 65, 75, 70, 60 so will take longer. Even a 317 will be doing 100 by oakleigh park on the up fast, a 365 will be there before barnet.

The thameslink is the same between Bedford and st pancras in terms of speed difference on fast and slow.

 

[Class377/5]

If you mean the speeds on the up line then its down hill all the way from potters bar so if you go out on the fast its 100 all the way to finsbury just about. If you go on the slow then from potters bar its 65, 75, 70, 60 so will take longer. Even a 317 will be doing 100 by oakleigh park on the up fast, a 365 will be there before barnet.

The thameslink is the same between Bedford and st pancras in terms of speed difference on fast and slow.

Yes but there timing different on services using either line. So all services will have same timings if same calling pattern despite what line they use.

 

[A-driver]

Yes but there timing different on services using either line. So all services will have same timings if same calling pattern despite what line they use.

Don't understand what you mean-some services are timed on the fast from potters bar and are booked earlier into finsbury park than the others timed for the slow.

 

[Class377/5]

Don't understand what you mean-some services are timed on the fast from potters bar and are booked earlier into finsbury park than the others timed for the slow.

Sorry I was talking about Thameslink. With the same calling pattern, timings will be the same on either line.

 

[Tom C]

During the off peak nearly all 2P's (Slow PBO's) are 317 and in the evening peak most 2C's (Slow CBG's) are 317 or 321.

Weekend diagrams are quite thin for 317's for this timetable with only two booked Saturday and one Sunday booked 317 diagram. Again there are no 321 diagrams at weekends which strikes me as odd as since the weather has got warmer they have performed magnificently to such a degree that I cannot remember a failure since yet there is only one all day 321 working during the week.

If anyone wants the 317 or 321 diagrams I am happy to get them.

 

[317 forever]

Thank you all for preparing me, even when diagrams are in practice hard to predict.

I welcome your information about slow PBO workings often being 317s off-peak Tom. As I am due to ride the Cambridge busway and Stagecoach X5 from St Neots to Cambridge on the Friday, I may well ride a 317 from Huntingdon to St Neots then rather than counting on one turning up on the Saturday.

 

[317 forever]

I think I have my trip for late August sorted. I shall probably ride from Finsbury Park to St Neots on Thursday 29th August during the afternoon. I am willing to change at Stevenage if necessary. Are there likely to be many class 317s out and about then?