Whitton to London Waterloo

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by nitin121, 22 Oct 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. nitin121

    nitin121 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    22 Oct 2011
    I just moved to Whitton(London).
    Whitton and Hounslow stations as closest. If I buy a season ticket from Whitton to Waterloo will I able to break journey at Twickenham (allows me to take the fast trains) and Hounslow.
    Please suggest.
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    5,092
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2008
    London Waterloo - Whitton via Hounslow is a Permitted Route because it's not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.

    The calculation is more cumbersome than usual because the mileage for part of Whitton - Waterloo via Hounslow is not shown in the National Rail Timetable.

    Table 149 of the Timetable gives distances of 12.5 miles for London Waterloo - Whitton via Richmond, and 13.5 miles for London Waterloo - Hounslow via Brentford. But it appears to me that the distance for Whitton - Houslow avoiding Feltham is not shown.

    Turning therefore to other published official documents, Network Rail's National Electronic Sectional Appendix: Wessex Route shows (page 160) that Whitton - Whitton Jn is 0 miles 40 chains, and that (pages 178-179) Whitton Jn - Hounslow Jn is 0 miles 30 chains and Hounslow Jn - Hounslow is 0 miles 49 chains. This gives a total for Whitton - Houslow avoiding Feltham of 1 mile 39 chains, or 1.5 miles when rounded to the quarter mile.

    The shortest route is 12.5 miles for London Waterloo - Whitton via Richmond. London Waterloo - Whitton via Hounslow is 15 miles and is therefore a Permitted Route.

    As a result of this, a London Terminals - Whitton season ticket is valid by either route, and for starting, breaking or ending a journey at any intermediate station.
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2011
  4. nitin121

    nitin121 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    22 Oct 2011
    Thanks John. Can't believe one can take the pain to go through all these documents to answer my question while the train company staff to whom I am actually paying told me without a second thought "No it NOT valid".
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2011
  5. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    5,092
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2008
    Yes, that's allowed.

    In my post above, the statement in my last paragraph is based on Condition 16 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
     
    Last edited: 22 Oct 2011
  6. mikeg

    mikeg Member

    Messages:
    796
    Joined:
    20 Apr 2010
    Sorry I thought that the three mile rule only applied where origin and destination had a routeing point in common. I maybe should refrain from helping (or hindering!) people using it until I've attended a fares workshop.
    I'll stick to ticket splitting, time restrictions and other things I know about until then.
     
  7. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    5,092
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2008
    Your confusion is due to the fact that much of the National Routeing Guide is poorly written and, in places, it is contradictory.

    There is a statement on page F7 which justifies your assumption.
    But the statement at the bottom of page F9, which I quoted above, makes it clear that this applies whether or not there is a common routeing point.
     
  8. nitin121

    nitin121 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    22 Oct 2011
    Well I went today to get the ticket from Whitton Station. Staff there said that via Hounslow is not allowed, even on the direct train. I tried debating and he said that his 10 years of experience and training account for something against your internet research. I still went ahead and purchased the ticket knowing his experience really account for nothing if according to him direct trains are not allowed. I do trust the judgement of the good helpful people here than the SWT useless staff.
     
  9. cjohnson

    cjohnson Member

    Messages:
    559
    Joined:
    3 Sep 2009
    Well that's just daft. Next time go armed with a screenshot of the National Rail site, which says:

    and a screenshot from the NRE Journey Planner showing a Whitton-Waterloo journey via Hounslow/Brentford, which clearly shows only one ticket is needed (and costs the same as the train via Richmond).
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    38,512
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    "Internet research"? :lol: The Internet is merely the method used to access the information, and is irrelevant.

    I would ask these questions:
    1) How are permitted routes defined? Where can I access this information?
    2) Is it correct that the shortest route, plus any routes within 3 miles of this, are valid routes? If not, please tell me what the rule is and where this is documented.

    If you merely tell them you have looked it up, then some staff will accept it, but some will not. Asking them to look it up can be more productive. Sometimes they are unwilling or unable to look it up, in which case I would ask them some further questions to determine if they have ever been made aware of the rules.

    Unfortunately some staff just make up the rules as they go along - see the FCC peak restrictions thread!

    I am fortunate in that the TOCs I use the most (TPE, EC) have staff who very rarely make things up, and if they do, Customer Relations will apologise and resolve the matter (I've hardly ever had to contact them, to be fair). If I used SWT/FCC I suspect I would have to contact Customer Relations a lot more often.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page