Whitton to London Waterloo

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nitin121

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I just moved to Whitton(London).
Whitton and Hounslow stations as closest. If I buy a season ticket from Whitton to Waterloo will I able to break journey at Twickenham (allows me to take the fast trains) and Hounslow.
Please suggest.
 
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John @ home

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London Waterloo - Whitton via Hounslow is a Permitted Route because it's not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.

National Routeing Guide in Detail page F9

Journeys on direct trains or taking the route of shortest distance or a distance longer
by no more than 3 miles are always following a permitted route. Journeys following a
route given by the Routeing Guide are following a permitted route.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/nrg_detail.pdf
The calculation is more cumbersome than usual because the mileage for part of Whitton - Waterloo via Hounslow is not shown in the National Rail Timetable.

Table 149 of the Timetable gives distances of 12.5 miles for London Waterloo - Whitton via Richmond, and 13.5 miles for London Waterloo - Hounslow via Brentford. But it appears to me that the distance for Whitton - Houslow avoiding Feltham is not shown.

Turning therefore to other published official documents, Network Rail's National Electronic Sectional Appendix: Wessex Route shows (page 160) that Whitton - Whitton Jn is 0 miles 40 chains, and that (pages 178-179) Whitton Jn - Hounslow Jn is 0 miles 30 chains and Hounslow Jn - Hounslow is 0 miles 49 chains. This gives a total for Whitton - Houslow avoiding Feltham of 1 mile 39 chains, or 1.5 miles when rounded to the quarter mile.

The shortest route is 12.5 miles for London Waterloo - Whitton via Richmond. London Waterloo - Whitton via Hounslow is 15 miles and is therefore a Permitted Route.

As a result of this, a London Terminals - Whitton season ticket is valid by either route, and for starting, breaking or ending a journey at any intermediate station.
 
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nitin121

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Thanks John. Can't believe one can take the pain to go through all these documents to answer my question while the train company staff to whom I am actually paying told me without a second thought "No it NOT valid".
 
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mikeg

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Sorry I thought that the three mile rule only applied where origin and destination had a routeing point in common. I maybe should refrain from helping (or hindering!) people using it until I've attended a fares workshop.
I'll stick to ticket splitting, time restrictions and other things I know about until then.
 

John @ home

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I thought that the three mile rule only applied where origin and destination had a routeing point in common.
Your confusion is due to the fact that much of the National Routeing Guide is poorly written and, in places, it is contradictory.

There is a statement on page F7 which justifies your assumption.
National Routeing Guide in Detail page F7

If there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/nrg_detail.pdf
But the statement at the bottom of page F9, which I quoted above, makes it clear that this applies whether or not there is a common routeing point.
 

nitin121

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Well I went today to get the ticket from Whitton Station. Staff there said that via Hounslow is not allowed, even on the direct train. I tried debating and he said that his 10 years of experience and training account for something against your internet research. I still went ahead and purchased the ticket knowing his experience really account for nothing if according to him direct trains are not allowed. I do trust the judgement of the good helpful people here than the SWT useless staff.
 

cjohnson

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Well I went today to get the ticket from Whitton Station. Staff there said that via Hounslow is not allowed, even on the direct train.
Well that's just daft. Next time go armed with a screenshot of the National Rail site, which says:

NRE said:
Whitton London to London Terminals
Available Standard Class Adult Season Tickets (Travel is allowed by any route option shown by the Journey Planner where the journey can be made using only one ticket.) ...
and a screenshot from the NRE Journey Planner showing a Whitton-Waterloo journey via Hounslow/Brentford, which clearly shows only one ticket is needed (and costs the same as the train via Richmond).
 

yorkie

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I tried debating and he said that his 10 years of experience and training account for something against your internet research.
"Internet research"? :lol: The Internet is merely the method used to access the information, and is irrelevant.

I would ask these questions:
1) How are permitted routes defined? Where can I access this information?
2) Is it correct that the shortest route, plus any routes within 3 miles of this, are valid routes? If not, please tell me what the rule is and where this is documented.

If you merely tell them you have looked it up, then some staff will accept it, but some will not. Asking them to look it up can be more productive. Sometimes they are unwilling or unable to look it up, in which case I would ask them some further questions to determine if they have ever been made aware of the rules.

Unfortunately some staff just make up the rules as they go along - see the FCC peak restrictions thread!

I am fortunate in that the TOCs I use the most (TPE, EC) have staff who very rarely make things up, and if they do, Customer Relations will apologise and resolve the matter (I've hardly ever had to contact them, to be fair). If I used SWT/FCC I suspect I would have to contact Customer Relations a lot more often.
 
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