Who are YOU backing?

[Mojo]

If you look at all that wasted space, which seems to come with all these electrical casings and crumple zones, you can see why there's so much.

 

[Andrew]

The Greater Western franchise specification is fairly tight. Together with the GW RUS they can pretty much tell anyone what will happen. The company running it will make, IMO, not much difference. So I'd say go back to BR, mainly because there are arguements against First (performance), National Express (one) and Stagecoach (buses, livery, stupid name "Brunel Trains" wasn't it?).

 

[Sprinter]

The Greater Western franchise in my opinion should be retained by First, but I am surprised that bid hasn't gone to teh Competition Commission to be honest, seeing as First also run many bus services in the South West of England, giving them a majority in this area.

Stagecoach would stand a good chance at it too, but again with Stagecopach also operating Virgin and South West trains, this may be a cuase for concern also, especially around Exeter.

 

[devon_metro]

TBH all of this hassle is pointless; the railways would run far better if managed by one larger company! maybe if BR was brought back we might see some 'real' trains returning to our railways.

I say bring back BR!

 

[Tom]

British Rail?

So you want BR eh?

 

[devon_metro]

British Rail?

So you want BR eh?

Certainly do! but i suppose this is unlikely to happen! Other wise i'll stick to First- cant beat a good old HST

 

[Mojo]

The Greater Western franchise in my opinion should be retained by First, but I am surprised that bid hasn't gone to teh Competition Commission to be honest, seeing as First also run many bus services in the South West of England, giving them a majority in this area.

It has, but then again, First aren't exactly successful at "running" their bus network.

 

[Galvanize]

First for me!

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

 

[Mojo]

a) How do you know that?
b) Most passengers, following from introduction of other new units, as well as the image that the railway needs to get, would rather travel on a /new/ train rather than an /older/ one.

I don't want NEx to win because of the mess with one railway, as well as their poor financial record & lack of willingness to provide major investment (c2c excepted)

 

[yorkie]

First for me!

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

If that's true then I'm backing First.

The Meridian/Voyager-type trains offer much less seats, are heavier, use more fuel (a great idea in the current climate - NOT!), and cause more track damage, than HSTs.

Also they tend to have less comfortable seats and less window seats (although that varies).

At the moment my preferred method of travel to Cornwall would be GNER + FGW, however if FGW was Meridian type trains I may as well go all the way on a Voyager.

 

[yorkie]

a) How do you know that?
b) Most passengers, following from introduction of other new units, as well as the image that the railway needs to get, would rather travel on a /new/ train rather than an /older/ one.

If that's true why is it when I was with a group of non-rail enthusiasts and there were 2 trains at a station going to the same place, they chose the faster Mk1 train rather than the new train sitting in the adjacent platform?

The new train got overtaken and took about 5 minutes longer, but they chose the older train.

On the way back they took the newer train simply because, although the older train was quicker there was no overtaking.

In my experience the most important aspects of travel for 'normal' passengers are for their train to be reasonably fast, on time, and to get a seat.

Anyway, back to HSTs vs Meridian-type trains, Mk3s are excellent vehicles (the best ever?) and can be refurbished to a high standard.

For example, GNER HSTs have power sockets at almost every seats. I only recently discovered that Pendos only have them at tables!

 

[Mojo]

I *do* like Mk3 coaches, but their downfalls seem to be the draughts and noise (esp when sitting at the end of a coach on a HST doing any sort of reasonable speed) and also the click-clunk from that annoying door.
If they were upgraded (which it is possible) then that would be brilliant, but IMO the Mk1s on the SR, whilst they are the the most reliable trains, they are simply awful to travel on, and aside from blocking off all the doors, fitting aircon and affective heating, as well as other mod-cons would never want me to travel with them.

 

[Z12XE]

If NEx win, they're gonna replace it's HSTs with 9 car meridiany things.

Is that the truth or what you've decided because of them being used on MML?

Any bid which suggests new trains will be rejected - you can take Greater Anglia and ICEC as the example for that.
The cheapest bid will be one which uses the current stock, anything newer would cost more

 

[Simming]

The Mark 3s are 25 years + old. They are getting a bit back dated, if you compare them to what trains you can get now on the network. It will be a shame from the Neds point of view, but from a passengers point of view, it will be a move in the right direction.

 

[yorkie]

The Mark 3s are 25 years + old. They are getting a bit back dated, if you compare them to what trains you can get now on the network. It will be a shame from the Neds point of view, but from a passengers point of view, it will be a move in the right direction.

Which passengers have you spoken to?

Look at the growth of GNER, who use Mk3s and Mk4s (now all refurbished except for one ex-VT HST set), who on average convey the most passengers per train of all the 'InterCity' TOCs, then look at Virgin who have actually experienced little, if any, growth on the West Coast using Pendolinos.

I've heard some passengers ask if they were in 1st class on refurbished GNER standard class. I've never heard such a comment on a Voyager and I'd be shocked if I did.

I personally find standard class on a GNER HST more comfortable than 1st class on a Virgin Voyager, and I suspect I may not be the only one?

 

[devon_metro]

Obviously from a passengers point of view they would much rather travel on a nice new modern train-but only if they hjave enough seats. Virgin are crazy by puttin 4-5 coaches on X-country services from Penzance to Dundee, during rush hour the trains are packed. Unless they can add more carriages it is pointless. An 8 car Voayger would accomadate the required passengers although i cannot see this happening. Sticking with Mk3s would be the best bet. With over 20 years of service it proves that they must be one great design!

 

[Simming]

With over 20 years of service it proves that they must be one great design!

The Pacer Is nearly 20 years old, does that mean that was a good design?

 

[devon_metro]

Well no, but if a train is designed like a bus can it really be a train? TBH have never seen one before so i wouldnt know!

 

[yorkie]

A Pacer isn't much of a 'design' in it's own right, as it was based on Leyland Nationals - it took their design.

In defence of pacers, if it wasn't for them rural lines WOULD have closed under the then Tory government who (digracefully) threatened to close many lines. We should never forget what the Tories did to our railway.

The Mk3 design was totally different, and was a revelation at the time. They have always been extremely popular with passengers and this remains the case now.

Many people still prefer to spend 8 hours in a Mk3 on London to Inverness, than fly. Before anyone says "But people don't use the train for the whole journey", they do, and I refer to Pip Dunn's article in Rail last year where even he expressed surprise at how many people do that.

 

[Met Driver]

Many people still prefer to spend 8 hours in a Mk3 on London to Inverness, than fly. Before anyone says "But people don't use the train for the whole journey", they do, and I refer to Pip Dunn's article in Rail last year where even he expressed surprise at how many people do that.

Indeed, when I did the HC all the way to Inverness from London, I saw several faces alighting at Inverness which I saw boarding in London. I wouldn't have wanted to do the journey in anything other than a Mk3. The full eight hour trip was as comfortable as anyone could have wanted.

 

[devon_metro]

A Pacer isn't much of a 'design' in it's own right,

Good point

 

[The Gricer]

A Pacer isn't much of a 'design' in it's own right, as it was based on Leyland Nationals - it took their design.

Yes, I can remember the first time I saw one of these Pacer prototypes at Laira open day in 1982. Looked just like a Leyland National on rails, (which of course is exactly what it was!)

picture here

Frank

 

[OTS]

as a first hater, i even have to admit that First run Great Western very well.

GW maybe, but not GWL!
I know many people who have switched to using the tube rather than GWL as the service has gone downhill very fast recently, with delays of over an hour not unheard of, although according to station staff, some were caused due to the signaller on the Cotswold line not turing up for 2 days in a row! hock:

 

[Techniquest]

It's far too obvious who I'm backing...OK, maybe I'll say anyway:

First, First, First!

And maybe we should make the point again...Capitals letters this time I think, just in case you're still unsure where I stand on the biggest thing to happen to the Western Region since BR was taken down:

FIRST FOR GREATER WESTERN 2006!

 

[Nick]

Who ever wins I don't care if it's bright pink HST's or gothic black HST's, as long as the trains run on time and ther service is provided for the people I couldn't care less.

 

[yorkie]

Well I don't care about the livery either (within reason - the examples above would not be to my taste!), I want what offers passengers the best deal.

Unfortunately the now defunct SRA made all the bidders conform to a tightly-controlled specification that doesn't offer much in the way of real improvements. And, as usual, the 'cheapest' bid (that gives the government most money or requires the least subsidy) is likely to win.

There is little or no incentive given by the SRA/DfT to improve service frequencies, despite HSTs being available to do so.

 

[steve158]

as a first hater, i even have to admit that First run Great Western very well.

GW maybe, but not GWL!
I know many people who have switched to using the tube rather than GWL as the service has gone downhill very fast recently, with delays of over an hour not unheard of, although according to station staff, some were caused due to the signaller on the Cotswold line not turing up for 2 days in a row! hock:

can't comment on FGWL.

every time i've been on the worcester-oxford section(or just round the corner)it's been a GW service.