Who you going to call? (Drivers: When your train has a technical issue who do you contact first?)

[Tom Quinne]

Question for drivers...

Your experience technical issues with your train, who you going to call first?

TOC Maintenance Control / Phone a Friend?
Signaller?

I know rule book states, contact controlling signaller first - however I’m experiencing an increasing trend of drivers not contacting us at all, with our control having to tell us XYZ train is having issues.

Do TOCs tell their drivers to contact Maintenance control first now in a hope of decreasing delays?

Ive had to remind three drivers this week alone of the requirement for contact the controlling signaller first.

 

[marty1977]

Always signaller first, it's always been that way at whatever TOC I've been at. Not sure why a driver would speak to maintenance first and don't know of dny TOC that instructs them to do that.

 

[4F89]

Rulebook states quite clearly to contact signaller if not making good progress (2020 edition) or stopped out of course. I doubt many drivers can find their way through the GSMR outside of pressing Call and SG to be able to call control without using their mobile.

 

[marty1977]

Rulebook states quite clearly to contact signaller if not making good progress (2020 edition) or stopped out of course. I doubt many drivers can find their way through the GSMR outside of pressing Call and SG to be able to call control without using their mobile.

Why would you think drivers couldn't find their way through working a GSMR? We are fully trained on all its features, it's not really that complicated so even us simple lever monkeys can struggle on by with it.

 

[4F89]

Why would you think drivers couldn't find their way through working a GSMR? We are fully trained on all its features, it's not really that complicated so even us simple lever monkeys can struggle on by with it.

Because I sit with plenty in the mess room that haven't got a clue how to do anything more than the above.

 

[baz962]

Question for drivers...

Your experience technical issues with your train, who you going to call first?

TOC Maintenance Control / Phone a Friend?
Signaller?

I know rule book states, contact controlling signaller first - however I’m experiencing an increasing trend of drivers not contacting us at all, with our control having to tell us XYZ train is having issues.

Do TOCs tell their drivers to contact Maintenance control first now in a hope of decreasing delays?

Ive had to remind three drivers this week alone of the requirement for contact the controlling signaller first.

I almost always contact signaller first. However , if I'm just starting the journey from a terminus station and I believe I have a chance of getting the fault rectified before my departure , I might call control first to get permission to aux off and on or flip an mcb.

 

[marty1977]

Because I sit with plenty in the mess room that haven't got a clue how to do anything more than the above.

I think that says something about the standards at your TOC. For a driver not to know how to use the GSMR correctly is unbelievable.

 

[2L70]

Question for drivers...

Your experience technical issues with your train, who you going to call first?

TOC Maintenance Control / Phone a Friend?
Signaller?

I know rule book states, contact controlling signaller first - however I’m experiencing an increasing trend of drivers not contacting us at all, with our control having to tell us XYZ train is having issues.

Do TOCs tell their drivers to contact Maintenance control first now in a hope of decreasing delays?

Ive had to remind three drivers this week alone of the requirement for contact the controlling signaller first.

Think you’ve got the nail on the head there.

 

[55018ballymoss]

Tom,
You are correct, it seems the majority of drivers/train crew contact their control and rarely the signaller.
Not only does it contravene the rule book instruction, it usually adds to delays for other trains which could be diverted around a failed or delayed train, rather than just queueing up behind it...

 

[Efini92]

Because I sit with plenty in the mess room that haven't got a clue how to do anything more than the above.

The training must be really poor at your place. It’s not difficult to use the GSMR

 

[Tom Quinne]

Tom,
You are correct, it seems the majority of drivers/train crew contact their control and rarely the signaller.
Not only does it contravene the rule book instruction, it usually adds to delays for other trains which could be diverted around a failed or delayed train, rather than just queueing up behind it...

This is what prompted me to remind the driver who didn’t call in this week, if he’d called as soon as he realised he had an issue I could of worked round. But as he didn’t I had a right mess of trains to sort out, no skin off my nose goes down as a driver delay, but my pride in the job makes me want to do the best for all my trains.

 

[driver9000]

If you believe there is an increasing trend then report it through the proper channels at Network Rail. Nothing will be done about it by making threads on an enthusiasts forum.

For what it's worth, the Signaller is always the first point of contact and that is the way it is taught. As for the claims of Drivers not knowing how to use the GSMR basic call functions I would be raising that with their TOC standards department because it potentially reveals a gaping hole in training of safety equipment.

 

[marty1977]

Tom,
You are correct, it seems the majority of drivers/train crew contact their control and rarely the signaller.
Not only does it contravene the rule book instruction, it usually adds to delays for other trains which could be diverted around a failed or delayed train, rather than just queueing up behind it...

But the majority don't do that, there is no factual basis for that claim other than one signaller posting on a forum.
The majority of drivers will always contact the signaller first, if they didn't there would be bulletins issued everywhere reminding drivers of the rule book requirements.

 

[sw1ller]

Depends where you are and how long you have. If I’m at the terminal station and have 5 minutes to spare and notice an issue, I’ll be straight on to maintenance, the signally doesn’t really care at this point. If it’s an easy fix then happy days. If it’s apparent it won’t be fixed in time then I’ll stop the phone call to maintenance and contact the signaller.

the second you’re out and about, it’s signaller first.

 

[4F89]

The training must be really poor at your place. It’s not difficult to use the GSMR

Vast majority are coming up to retirement and dont care

of course, a driver can always mention to the guard etc who may well contact control, always helps having more than 1 on a train

 

[iphone76]

We are constantly having it drummed into us to contact the signaller first. I'd even call them at a terminus station if I was yet to depart so I don't get the road until the issue is resolved in case other trains are waiting to arrive or others can leave ahead of me.

I can totally understand your frustration if people are not calling you in the first instance.

 

[4F89]

If you believe there is an increasing trend then report it through the proper channels at Network Rail. Nothing will be done about it by making threads on an enthusiasts forum.

For what it's worth, the Signaller is always the first point of contact and that is the way it is taught. As for the claims of Drivers not knowing how to use the GSMR basic call functions I would be raising that with their TOC standards department because it potentially reveals a gaping hole in training of safety equipment.

They know how to use it safely, but not the intricacies of cab/cab calling etc. They are perfectly safe, its the 10% of additional features that nobody ever uses.

 

[Joliver]

Always contact the signaller first.

 

[High Dyke]

If you believe there is an increasing trend then report it through the proper channels at Network Rail. Nothing will be done about it by making threads on an enthusiasts forum.

For what it's worth, the Signaller is always the first point of contact and that is the way it is taught. As for the claims of Drivers not knowing how to use the GSMR basic call functions I would be raising that with their TOC standards department because it potentially reveals a gaping hole in training of safety equipment.

Like they ever listen to frontline staff!

 

[Tom Quinne]

Depends where you are and how long you have. If I’m at the terminal station and have 5 minutes to spare and notice an issue, I’ll be straight on to maintenance, the signally doesn’t really care at this point. If it’s an easy fix then happy days. If it’s apparent it won’t be fixed in time then I’ll stop the phone call to maintenance and contact the signaller.

the second you’re out and about, it’s signaller first.

Totally agree, terminal station with plenty of time until booked time maintenance control fair enough. At least then we won’t pull off with you still fault finding etc.

But the majority don't do that, there is no factual basis for that claim other than one signaller posting on a forum.
The majority of drivers will always contact the signaller first, if they didn't there would be bulletins issued everywhere reminding drivers of the rule book requirements.

It does seem to be one TOC in my area, and a certain group of drivers..ie new guys, the experienced drivers don’t.

If you believe there is an increasing trend then report it through the proper channels at Network Rail. Nothing will be done about it by making threads on an enthusiasts forum.

For what it's worth, the Signaller is always the first point of contact and that is the way it is taught. As for the claims of Drivers not knowing how to use the GSMR basic call functions I would be raising that with their TOC standards department because it potentially reveals a gaping hole in training of safety equipment.

I have brought it up, it still happens.
It’s left me wondering if it is local issue, with a new batches or drivers being told during their training to control their control first contrary to the rule book.

On a side note this isn’t a enthusiast forum, I was told so by forum management.

 

[choochoochoo]

Signaller First every time if I feel I'm going to be blocking a line/platform.

Like others have said, if the turn around time in a dead end platform suggests I might be able to fix it via a call to control, then I'll make a call to control first, keeping an eye on my booked time out. If I'm getting close to my booked departure time and it's not fixed, I'll buzz the signaller to let them know.

 

[Andrew Ford]

The amount of blues we see on a daily basis that are a bit spurious.

“C fault for whatever, auxed off and on”

“Cup holder base missing”

I could go on...

 

[43066]

Signaller first every time for me. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to a driver who wouldn’t contact them first.

I seem to remember in the ARL detrainment incident near Peckham Rye the driver didn’t contact the signaller in the first instance, due to contacting control, and that contributed to the severity of the incident. Seems like a ridiculous approach to me, but does suggest it might vary by TOC.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Signaller first every time for me. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to a driver who wouldn’t contact them first.

I seem to remember in the ARL detrainment incident near Peckham Rye the driver didn’t contact the signaller in the first instance, due to contacting control, and that contributed to the severity of the incident. Seems like a ridiculous approach to me, but does suggest it might vary by TOC.

It does seem to be metro style operations with high driver turnover who seem to be the ones most likely to contact control first.

 

[theironroad]

If underway then signaller first everytime so that can work round if necessary and able to .

As others have said, if it's a while before departure and departure time unlikely to be affected then I won't involve signaller.

Then 'phone a friend' in control for advice and they can get a decision made on what will happen to train if it's a failure.

Unfortunately the last 5-10 years has seen some drivers brainwashed into thinking that control should be the first point of contact for absolutely everything and it's wrong.

And yes, I've reported a broken cup holder before. We don't have paper fault books anymore and the only way there is a vague possibility of getting it repaired is for it to go onto the maintenance log. If that's going to upset someone in control then so be it. It needs to be fixed.

Signaller first every time for me. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to a driver who wouldn’t contact them first.

I seem to remember in the ARL detrainment incident near Peckham Rye the driver didn’t contact the signaller in the first instance, due to contacting control, and that contributed to the severity of the incident. Seems like a ridiculous approach to me, but does suggest it might vary by TOC.

A few years ago a train filled with smoke on the swt reading line and rather than move the passenegers to a place of safety away from the incident as the first priority, the guard decided phoning someone in control first was the best option. The conversation was played on a safety day and it was a embarrassment

 

[choochoochoo]

Going off topic.

I too report the tiny faults like cup holders and broken arm rests. Likewise, we don't have a fault book, so only way is to report via phone.

If something is wrong, it needs to be fixed. It's all about links in a chain/holes in the swiss cheese. If that cup holder fault leads to a drink being spilt, and that then leads to an incident. Guess what, that may have been prevented if the cup holder had been fixed.

 

[Marino]

This thread has coincided well with the new PON release.
I echo what most have contributed on here - signaller first, my most recent example was at a terminus and I had the road already but couldn't get interlock, it was a no brainer to let the signaller know first before I started fault finding so they could take the road back and do their stuff.

 

[43066]

This thread has coincided well with the new PON release.
I echo what most have contributed on here - signaller first, my most recent example was at a terminus and I had the road already but couldn't get interlock, it was a no brainer to let the signaller know first before I started fault finding so they could take the road back and do their stuff.

Exactly right. It’s extraordinary (and worrying) that there are drivers out there who apparently don’t think like that....

 

[Tom Quinne]

An example from a few months ago...

Class 1 train, station staff TRTS.

Pull off the road, signal clears to green across a complex junction at a major station.

Departure time comes and goes by 3 minutes.

GSMR call to the train goes unanswered.
Call to station staff unanswered.

Now I’m a situation do I put the road back, as I’m permitted to do as I’m unable to make contact - I’m unwilling to do this just in case the driver spads so I leave the road off.

6 minutes post departure time, my control call to say the train is a failure and want it running round (double set, front set to the back).

Still no contact from the ground, cancel road and recall for non passenger road to enable runround post haste.

Road recalled to non passenger road.

Train moves and starts to run across the ladder.

Call from driver, where am I going?

Explanation of the plan, only to be told the fault was rectified.

Result a 20 minute delay whilst the train is taken back into the station.

Wrong routing for guard / driver and station staff.

 

[whistler2018]

Totally agree, terminal station with plenty of time until booked time maintenance control fair enough. At least then we won’t pull off with you still fault finding etc.



It does seem to be one TOC in my area, and a certain group of drivers..ie new guys, the experienced drivers don’t.



I have brought it up, it still happens.
It’s left me wondering if it is local issue, with a new batches or drivers being told during their training to control their control first contrary to the rule book.

On a side note this isn’t a enthusiast forum, I was told so by forum management.

Currently training and I can confirm that we have had it hammered into us that it’s ALWAYS signaller first.

Can’t speak for all TOCs of course but if there is training underway that tells trainees to contact Control first then that TOC needs to review its training and probably make some personnel adjustments in the Ops Team...