Why are Chiltern Fares so expensive?

[Mikey C]

Recently I travelled to Aylesbury. The anytime return fare is £33.10, with the off peak return £22.10

I'm next planning to go to Tring (an very similar distance from London but on a different line and operator LNWR). The anytime return ticket is only £24.60, with the off peak ticket £16.50

Indeed you have to pick a Chiltern destination much nearer London in Beaconsfield, to find comparable fares to the LNWR ones (anytime return of £24.40 and off peak of £17.10).

Chiltern have a good reputation, but their fares do seem to be rather high. Isn't the anytime return fare a regulated one, so why is Tring on LNWR so much cheaper?

 

[Hadders]

I suspect that this goes back to British Rail days. When the Chiltern Line was modernised BR would've out the fares up to reflect the better service.

This happened on the ECML when it was electrified and explains why regulated fares on the ECML are more expensive than on the WCML.

 

[Mikey C]

I suspect that this goes back to British Rail days. When the Chiltern Line was modernised BR would've out the fares up to reflect the better service.

This happened on the ECML when it was electrified and explains why regulated fares on the ECML are more expensive than on the WCML.

But then wasn't the WCML modernised as well at vast expense? It's not as if a 75mph 165 is an obviously better travelling experience than a 350 either?

 

[Hadders]

The original 1960s electrification would've pre-dated market based pricing.

The early 2000s modernisation was after privatisation and so fell undernthebcurrent fares regulation regime.

 

[gazthomas]

I feel Chiltern fares are quite cheap, but maybe I've misunderstood this. Are there cheaper fares available if you split tickets?

I don't know where you travelled from but I don't think it was Marylebone as an Anytime Day Return from there is £23.40

 

[67018]

According to brfares there are two fares from Marylebone - the Any Permitted is £33.10 and there's a route:CHALFONT & LATMR at £23.40. So I suspect the high price of the former reflects the flexibility of being valid via both High Wycombe and the Met. It's probably also got to be set relatively high so as not to undercut the fares from the likes of Princes Risborough and High Wycombe, which I think were increased along with many other fares along the Birmingham route when the Evergreen 2 service improvements came in a few years ago

 

[Mikey C]

According to brfares there are two fares from Marylebone - the Any Permitted is £33.10 and there's a route:CHALFONT & LATMR at £23.40. So I suspect the high price of the former reflects the flexibility of being valid via both High Wycombe and the Met. It's probably also got to be set relatively high so as not to undercut the fares from the likes of Princes Risborough and High Wycombe, which I think were increased along with many other fares along the Birmingham route when the Evergreen 2 service improvements came in a few years ago

Looking at Chiltern off peak fares, it does seem that the shorter distance services are really expensive (the Evergreen 2 "surcharge") except services ONLY via Chalfont, whereas the longer distance ones are really cheap. Aylesbury does seem really expensive, as all off peak fares have the "Evergreen 2" surcharge, despite most of the services not benefiting. There's no "via Chalfont only" off peak fare

Great Missenden (just past Amersham, so not on the mainline) £11.90 return
Princes Risborough (on the mainline) £21.80
Aylesbury £22.10

Whereas
Birmingham Moor Street or Warwick Parkway £30.50 return, a bargain

I can understand them wanting to compete on longer distance services, but as a result their fare structure really penalises some of their shorter services, especially as they don't have advance fares either, whereas Birmingham services do. I can find loads of £5.50 single advance fares to Birmingham for example. It's as if the shorter distance travellers (where there's no competition) are subsidising their Birmingham services (where there is competition)...

 

[67018]

Although to be pedantic, those Birmingham or Warwick fares are Super Off Peak so more restricted - these options of course don't exist for shorter distances.

Aylesbury is also further out than Tring Compare with Leighton Buzzard and the Anytime Day Return prices are closer although there's still quite a gap on the CDRs.

 

[mallard]

The real question is why is WMT so cheap? (Most likey due to the existence of competition...)

Comparing other routes of similar length:

Harlington (Beds) to London: 32.60 Anytime, 23.90 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak takes that to 19.50 or 13.20 at weekends.

Arlesey to London: 29.00 Anytime, 19.50 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 13.20 only valid at weekends.

Reading to London: 47.70 Anytime (Any Permitted; 33.90 via Staines) 20.30 Off-Peak (19.00 via Staines; Day returns). Super Off-Peak 18.70 or 16.10 at weekends.

Haywards Heath to London: 43.90 Anytime, 14.80 Off-Peak (Thameslink only, I'm not opening that can of worms. 25.50 Any Permitted; Day returns). Super Off-Peak 11.60 (also TL only) valid only at weekends.

Southend (Central) to London: 19.00 Anytime, 17.80 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 13.40 valid only at weekends.

Southend (Victoria) to London: 30.60 Anytime, 21.80 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 16.80.

So really, Chiltern's fares are in the same range as other London commuter operators... Also, C2C is very cheap!

 

[PeterC]

There are savings by using Oyster or contactless to Amersham. I am not sure if there are standalone readers on the platform though (there are at Chalfont).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The real question is why is WMT so cheap? (Most likey due to the existence of competition...)

There isn't really any competition for travel to Tring per-se, other than *possibly* attracting people to drive there from Aylesbury. The competition occurs further north, and the only fares that were really affected by that were those from Bletchley and Leighton Buzzard which some time ago got reduced in line with the LNR Only fare from MKC[1] (though I think the LBZ one has crept back up a bit).

[1] Which doesn't bar break of journey, so if it *does* creep up...

 

[Mikey C]

There are savings by using Oyster or contactless to Amersham. I am not sure if there are standalone readers on the platform though (there are at Chalfont).

It would be handy if your carriage was by the readers so you could quickly jump off the train, tap in then jump back on!

 

[Metroman62]

It would be handy if your carriage was by the readers so you could quickly jump off the train, tap in then jump back on!

There are readers on the platform at Amersham and you do see some people jumping off - tapping out or in - then jumping back on a Chiltern train.

 

[Mikey C]

The real question is why is WMT so cheap? (Most likey due to the existence of competition...)

Comparing other routes of similar length:

Harlington (Beds) to London: 32.60 Anytime, 23.90 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak takes that to 19.50 or 13.20 at weekends.

Arlesey to London: 29.00 Anytime, 19.50 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 13.20 only valid at weekends.

Reading to London: 47.70 Anytime (Any Permitted; 33.90 via Staines) 20.30 Off-Peak (19.00 via Staines; Day returns). Super Off-Peak 18.70 or 16.10 at weekends.

Haywards Heath to London: 43.90 Anytime, 14.80 Off-Peak (Thameslink only, I'm not opening that can of worms. 25.50 Any Permitted; Day returns). Super Off-Peak 11.60 (also TL only) valid only at weekends.

Southend (Central) to London: 19.00 Anytime, 17.80 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 13.40 valid only at weekends.

Southend (Victoria) to London: 30.60 Anytime, 21.80 Off-Peak (Day returns). Super Off-Peak 16.80.

So really, Chiltern's fares are in the same range as other London commuter operators... Also, C2C is very cheap!

On the other hand, going down to Tunbridge Wells yesterday

Anytime 23.40, off peak 20.30, super off peak 16.20

So pretty comparable to the Tring LNWR fare and much cheaper than equivalent Chiltern ones.

Those Reading anytime fares are extraordinary, I'm guessing that they were stuck up to reflect the HST benefit,

 

[Hadders]

The Reading fare is a good example of why fares regulation is needed. Imagine what it would be if the TOCs could charge what they wanted!

One of the issues is that TOCs have no long term incentive given that most franchises are only a handful of years in length. Imagine what VTEC would’ve done to fares if there was no regulation at all given their financial difficulties.

 

[CyrusWuff]

One thing to bear in mind is that, heading away from London, Chiltern only apply Anytime fares between 0630 and 0829 for stations as far as Bicester North and Oxford Parkway.

For Banbury and beyond, it's Off-Peak between 0630 and 0829, and again between 1600 and 1859, with Super Off-Peak available for the rest of the day. The only time you need an Anytime fare is if you're arriving into London before 10am.