Why are XC allowed to continue?

[brompton rail]

Cross Country trains fail on a daily basis to run the full complement of services. The Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham - Leamington - Oxford Reading service being probably their worst.
Services either don’t run throughout or are cancelled partway, often at Birmingham. Nearly all are only 4 car (the occasional 5 car). For example the first Newcastle Reading service hasn’t run regularly over Christmas Yesterday, New Year’s Eve, only 2 services ran through Doncaster in the morning, southbound and no northbound services all day. Indeed the only regular service is the 1727 Plymouth to Leeds which very rarely misses.

Why were XC granted a further licence without a requirement for more trains, increased reliability and improved services? Why no competition to find a better operator, or even operator of last resort?

 

[skyhigh]

Why were XC granted a further licence without a requirement for more trains, increased reliability and improved services?

Because everything - staff numbers, fleet size, service specification - is set by the DfT. Changing the company that operates the trains will have little effect on the day-to-day operations.

 

[Purple Train]

Cross Country trains fail on a daily basis to run the full complement of services. The Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham - Leamington - Oxford Reading service being probably their worst.
Services either don’t run throughout or are cancelled partway, often at Birmingham. Nearly all are only 4 car (the occasional 5 car). For example the first Newcastle Reading service hasn’t run regularly over Christmas Yesterday, New Year’s Eve, only 2 services ran through Doncaster in the morning, southbound and no northbound services all day. Indeed the only regular service is the 1727 Plymouth to Leeds which very rarely misses.

Why were XC granted a further licence without a requirement for more trains, increased reliability and improved services? Why no competition to find a better operator, or even operator of last resort?

Because it would cost money, and the DfT are currently minded to count the cost of every sneeze and rivet rather than attempt to improve the situation. Fortunately I don't travel so much in the winter but I'm dependent on CrossCountry for my long-distance travel and, like you say, the reliability was very hit-and-miss then, and much worse now.

 

[JonathanH]

Because it would cost money, and the DfT are currently minded to count the cost of every sneeze and rivet rather than attempt to improve the situation.

The interesting question is where you could best make cuts elsewhere to fund a better XC operation.

There is finite money available for the overall railway, so more money for a better XC service would appear to mean less somewhere else.

 

[brompton rail]

Well, the Newcastle / Reading is a shortened version of Newcastle / Southampton; it runs less than two hourly now rather than hourly, so how has that improved the service?

 

[py_megapixel]

Well, the Newcastle / Reading is a shortened version of Newcastle / Southampton;

To be fair, I think Southampton was just an irregular extension of what was predominantly a Newcastle-Reading service, even pre-covid.

it runs less than two hourly now rather than hourly, so how has that improved the service?

It hasn't improved the service, but at the moment, providing a decent service doesn't seem to be the priority of anyone with the power to do anything about it.

 

[GWVillager]

XC is a disgrace, really, and one that has been around for too long. However, it’s not especially bad by the standards of long distance operators - punctuality is actually rather good when compared to Avanti or even LNER.

The situation is unlikely to improve within the next few years, for the following reasons:
- As mentioned by others, there is a lack of will to fund XC, and rail more generally (which is the crux of the issue).
- Arriva are quite competitive when it comes to minimising Government subsidy, and have accordingly received a 4-year contract that is unlikely to be terminated early.
- The situation at CrossCountry is not much worse than pre-pandemic, and things are somewhat stable. This means there’s less “news” to be reported on by the media, which is often a driving factor in bringing about change.
- XC does not serve London, and is therefore used less by business travellers/politicians/people of influence, further contributing to the indifference of those at the top.

However, there is some hope. As part of the new contract, all of XC’s trains will be refurbished, and they are to receive 7 221s from Avanti, helping with capacity issues somewhat. The Class 222s will also be leaving EMR within the next few years, and I would be very surprised if some did not make their way over to XC as well.

 

[brompton rail]

Thanks for your responses.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Avanti and LNER are all style (long, flashy electric trains, plenty of seats, high frequency timetable, first class meals and booze) but no substance (trains actually running, turning up on time, correct formations, reliability - the latter LNER are worse for)

CrossCountry - the main Voyager operation anyway - is much the opposite. No style but more substance. The trains are short, diesel-powered, unrefurbished and tatty, but they’re far more likely to turn up and provide a consistent service.

 

[leomartin125]

XC is a disgrace, really, and one that has been around for too long. However, it’s not especially bad by the standards of long distance operators - punctuality is actually rather good when compared to Avanti or even LNER.

The situation is unlikely to improve within the next few years, for the following reasons:
- As mentioned by others, there is a lack of will to fund XC, and rail more generally (which is the crux of the issue).
- Arriva are quite competitive when it comes to minimising Government subsidy, and have accordingly received a 4-year contract that is unlikely to be terminated early.
- The situation at CrossCountry is not much worse than pre-pandemic, and things are somewhat stable. This means there’s less “news” to be reported on by the media, which is often a driving factor in bringing about change.
- XC does not serve London, and is therefore used less by business travellers/politicians/people of influence, further contributing to the indifference of those at the top.

However, there is some hope. As part of the new contract, all of XC’s trains will be refurbished, and they are to receive 7 221s from Avanti, helping with capacity issues somewhat. The Class 222s will also be leaving EMR within the next few years, and I would be very surprised if some did not make their way over to XC as well.

It is worth noting that the 222s currently in service with EMR are NOT electrically compatible with the 220/221, so transferring them to XC would be as good as introducing a whole new type of long distance rolling stock. As such, this is why XC sought the off lease 221s from Avanti rather than look into the 222s.

It is likely the 222s may end up North of the border, as a possible replacement for the HSTs out of Glasgow and Edinburgh. There really isn't anywhere else they can be used apart from stored like the rest of the recently off lease stock like Heathrow Connect 360s, Stansted Expresss 379s etc...

 

[Spaceship323]

It is likely the 222s may end up North of the border, as a possible replacement for the HSTs out of Glasgow and Edinburgh. There really isn't anywhere else they can be used apart from stored like the rest of the recently off lease stock like Heathrow Connect 360s, Stansted Expresss 379s etc...

EMR have already put out a tender for storage of the 222's

Class 810 and Class 222 Vehicle Storage [Tender Notice]

The contract is for the storage of up to 17, 5 car Class 810 vehicles prior to entry into service. ... A Tender Notice by Abellio East Midlands. Value £900K.

bidstats.uk

 

[Darandio]

EMR have already put out a tender for storage of the 222's

Not long term though, that is only while their replacements are gradually entered into service.

 

[NEDdrv]

Cross Country trains fail on a daily basis to run the full complement of services. The Newcastle - York - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham - Leamington - Oxford Reading service being probably their worst.
Services either don’t run throughout or are cancelled partway, often at Birmingham. Nearly all are only 4 car (the occasional 5 car). For example the first Newcastle Reading service hasn’t run regularly over Christmas Yesterday, New Year’s Eve, only 2 services ran through Doncaster in the morning, southbound and no northbound services all day. Indeed the only regular service is the 1727 Plymouth to Leeds which very rarely misses.

Why were XC granted a further licence without a requirement for more trains, increased reliability and improved services? Why no competition to find a better operator, or even operator of last resort?

Result of the poor industrial relations with plenty of XC drivers not working their days off. Pre the end of last RDW agreement Nov 20 don’t think this poor availability would have happened. After over 18 months in dispute and no pay increase in nearly 5 years it’s not surprising that any good will has gone.

 

[Kite159]

To be fair, I think Southampton was just an irregular extension of what was predominantly a Newcastle-Reading service, even pre-covid.



It hasn't improved the service, but at the moment, providing a decent service doesn't seem to be the priority of anyone with the power to do anything about it.

Used to be 2 hourly to Southampton from Newcastle, so not that irregular.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Used to be 2 hourly to Southampton from Newcastle, so not that irregular.

And for a long time XC were pressing for it to be hourly, but could not obtain the paths due to the volume of freight on the Southampton-Reading corridor.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

And for a long time XC were pressing for it to be hourly, but could not obtain the paths due to the volume of freight on the Southampton-Reading corridor.

Yet another example of how difficult it is to carry the current levels of all rail traffic on purely two-track routes. XC has very few stretches of four-track on its network. HS2 would be so useful in releasing capacity but it seems "the powers that be" have given up trying to understand that argument.

 

[GWVillager]

It is worth noting that the 222s currently in service with EMR are NOT electrically compatible with the 220/221, so transferring them to XC would be as good as introducing a whole new type of long distance rolling stock. As such, this is why XC sought the off lease 221s from Avanti rather than look into the 222s.

I know, but there are enough 222s to make it worthwhile, and the parts commonality and minimal crew training still make them an obvious choice.

 

[weeklycommuter]

To be fair, I think Southampton was just an irregular extension of what was predominantly a Newcastle-Reading service, even pre-covid.

Used to be 2 hourly to Southampton from Newcastle, so not that irregular.

And for a long time XC were pressing for it to be hourly, but could not obtain the paths due to the volume of freight on the Southampton-Reading corridor.

Looking at the latest consolidated agreement for XC Trains Ltd at

Consolidated agreements | Office of Rail and Road

A consolidated (or conformed) agreement is a document incorporating all approved amendments to the existing approved agreement.

www.orr.gov.uk

it appears Cross Country Trains have given up the paths South of Reading that they used to extend approximately five Newcastle-York-Reading trains a day to Southampton. Their current numbers of paths Reading-Bournemouth and Reading-Southampton appear to match those used by their hourly Manchester-Bournemouth service so I assume they will not now be restoring the Newcastle-York-Reading extensions to Southampton. The paths will probably be taken by freight trains to Southampton. This service will also probably not be able to run hourly York to Newcastle as the expected new December 2024 East Coast Mainline timetable will only leave Cross Country Trains with one complete hourly path York to Newcastle which is used by the Edinburgh-Newcastle-Plymouth trains plus a fraction of a path which can be used by some Reading-York trains. A service which would be useful if it can be arranged is combining one of the two Great Western Railway services each hour between Basingstoke and Reading with an hourly Cross Country Reading-Birmingham-York service to provide a direct hourly train between Basingstoke and York.

 

[JonathanH]

I know, but there are enough 222s to make it worthwhile, and the parts commonality and minimal crew training still make them an obvious choice.

There is no current basis for speculation about 222s ever operating for CrossCountry. As it stands, it is just your suggestion for how things could, in your view, be better.

A service which would be useful if it can be arranged is combining one of the two Great Western Railway services each hour between Basingstoke and Reading with an hourly Cross Country Reading-Birmingham-York service to provide a direct hourly train between Basingstoke and York.

The Great Western trains use three units to provide a (roughly) half hourly service which is the stopper between Reading and Basingstoke, serving Reading West, Reading Green Park, Mortimer and Bramley. Local services are not generally linked to long distance services in the way you are describing.

 

[Richard Scott]

The entire rail network is a disgrace.

That's not really true, majority of time I travel by train it's pretty reliable. There are going to be issues and, like many things in modern life, demand outstrips supply and it's hard to keep up.
Try travelling abroad and you'll appreciate what you have. Germany is appalling and France not much to write home about either.

 

[swt_passenger]

There is no current basis for speculation about 222s ever operating for CrossCountry. As it stands, it is just your suggestion for how things could, in your view, be better.

I also wonder if there‘ll ever be a limit to the number of separate discussions about 222s and XC?
We probably had enough threads last year, and yet here we go again…

 

[dk1]

XC have just been gifted an extended franchise. The DfT are the villains.

 

[Disrupted]

That's not really true, majority of time I travel by train it's pretty reliable. There are going to be issues and, like many things in modern life, demand outstrips supply and it's hard to keep up.
Try travelling abroad and you'll appreciate what you have. Germany is appalling and France not much to write home about either.

Comparing France and Germany to this country is, frankly, irrelevant.

Do you really think regular travellers with LNER, Avanti, Thameslink, Northern and TPE (to name just a few) would feel remotely less dissatisfied with the shambolic to non-existent service they receive on a day to day basis if "but it's worse in France and Germany" was thrown at them?

 

[geoffk]

XC have just been gifted an extended franchise. The DfT are the villains.

Do we know when they're getting the extra 221s, and will they be mainly covering for the refurbishment programme?

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know when they're getting the extra 221s, and will they be mainly covering for the refurbishment programme?

It’s not accurately dated, as far as I know, because it follows on from 805/807 delivery. Everything already known will be in this thread:

New XC contract - news & updates (not speculation)

From Arriva’s Press Release on CrossCountry: Under the new contract, CrossCountry is also planning enhancements to its timetable, including a new daily direct service between Cardiff and Edinburgh. The company will also explore the reintroduction of services between Cambridge and Stansted...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Richard Scott]

Comparing France and Germany to this country is, frankly, irrelevant.

Do you really think regular travellers with LNER, Avanti, Thameslink, Northern and TPE (to name just a few) would feel remotely less dissatisfied with the shambolic to non-existent service they receive on a day to day basis if "but it's worse in France and Germany" was thrown at them?

I'm sorry but I have used all of those operators and, whilst improvements are needed, you are over exaggerating. If it were the media I'm sure it would be a crisis.

 

[class 9]

XC have just been gifted an extended franchise. The DfT are the villains.

It's a national rail contract, franchises are gone. All revenue goes to the treasury & all major decisions are done by the DfT, XC management can't do anything to improve things, they are just contractors.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Comparing France and Germany to this country is, frankly, irrelevant.

Do you really think regular travellers with LNER, Avanti, Thameslink, Northern and TPE (to name just a few) would feel remotely less dissatisfied with the shambolic to non-existent service they receive on a day to day basis if "but it's worse in France and Germany" was thrown at them?

I’d take LNER, Avanti, Thameslink and Northern over Transport for Wales anyday of the week. Care to swap?

 

[MML]

The question which really needs to be asked is why aren't XC generating enough revenue to fund investment in longer and more frequent trains?
The trains I have seen across a number of different routes always well loaded, indeed excessively so in some cases which often deters repeat business. But if the trains are packed with advance saver fares, they are probably struggling to break even. They need to invest in more capacity with a premium product and try to make more from upselling and meal service. Not a full blow onboard kitchen, but an easily delivered meal suitable for a 4+ hour journey. They need to maximise revenue to be able to invest.

 

[Gaelan]

The question which really needs to be asked is why aren't XC generating enough revenue to fund investment in longer and more frequent trains?
The trains I have seen across a number of different routes always well loaded, indeed excessively so in some cases which often deters repeat business. But if the trains are packed with advance saver fares, they are probably struggling to break even. They need to invest in more capacity with a premium product and try to make more from upselling and meal service. Not a full blow onboard kitchen, but an easily delivered meal suitable for a 4+ hour journey. They need to maximise revenue to be able to invest.

If I'm doing the math correctly, in 2022-23, CrossCountry made 16.5p per passenger km, more or less comparable with most other intercity operators (Avanti: 17.3; GWR: 17.8; EMR: 16.4).

Interestingly, LNER made notably less revenue (13.0p/km), but its expenses are lower to match.