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Why Aren't We Normal?

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Butts

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I voted out but am slightly worried about the reasoning for some people based on something one of the cleaners said to me at work tonight.

"Will England be unable to take part in the next European Football Championship if they leave the EU" :roll:
 
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Gutfright

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I voted out but am slightly worried about the reasoning for some people based on something one of the cleaners said to me at work tonight.

"Will England be unable to take part in the next European Football Championship if they leave the EU" :roll:

The implication being that in or out Scotland wouldn't be taking part ;)
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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I voted out but am slightly worried about the reasoning for some people based on something one of the cleaners said to me at work tonight. "Will England be unable to take part in the next European Football Championship if they leave the EU" :roll:

As I said on another thread quite some time ago. the thought of voting "Leave" may have affected the many who voted that way on the assumption we would finally no longer be subjected to entry and subsequent deep embarrassment of the subsequent poor results of the British entry on the Eurovision Song Contest....:D
 

Shaw S Hunter

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So why are we train fans so badly out of lockstep with this country?

I dunno. What are your theories?

Given that your own postings on this forum are overwhelmingly in either the quiz forum or in the political threads in the general discussion forum my theory is that you're not a train fan.

I think there's two big driving forces here.

1) We are a young forum. As has been noted elsewhere, lots of us are in our twenties. I'd wager that the forum membership, in terms of the age demographic, does not mirror the UK as a whole.
2) The forum is generally left leaning on the whole. Probably helped in no small part by the large number of railwaymen/union members, and again young people. I suspect that these groups would have been more likely to vote to remain than the general population. (Although I do note that the RMT backed leaving).

Neither of the above statements are exclusive - I know there are plenty of people who are older, and plenty of people who lean to the right. But I think that they are relatively underrepresented in our forum.

How do we know any of the above to be true? Have the forum management ever published a summary of the details we supply when registering?

I like trains.
I'm university educated.
My job is middle class but I feel working class due to my background and where I live.
I'm obviously well travelled, including Europe, Africa and the USA.
I voted out, mainly for sovereignty and immigration reasons but the thread would slide if I said more about this.

Not normal indeed...

I'm middle aged with many years before I'll get a pension.
I've been a railfan for over 40 years.
I dropped out of university.
My various jobs have included both blue and white collar roles.
I have traveled on the trains of 15 continental railways and visited two other European countries without going near their trains. I have also been to the US and Australia.
I voted remain.

Which pigeon hole do you want to put me in?

"ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain"

Was it necessary to a) mention British three times and b) write it in such a way that it sort of creates a 'them and us' scenario?

a) Because Britain.

b) Because the reality is that it is them and us. When you chose to put your cross in the remain box, you made a conscious decision to say "I don't give a fig about the low-paid Britons who are finding their wages undercut by mass EU immigration. I'm all right Jack. The working class can kiss my arse". Unfortunately for you, a large number of the lower orders you so very clearly despise came out and made their voices heard.

And, boom, there goes the dynamite.

Predictable, wasn't it.
 

kermit

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I note that all of the umpteen squillion EU polls on these forums show an overwhelming support for remaining in the European Union.

As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.

Were you quoting Al Murray's Pub Landlord deliberately and ironically there, or accidentally and witlessly?
 

DerekC

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Because the reality is that it is them and us. When you chose to put your cross in the remain box, you made a conscious decision to say "I don't give a fig about the low-paid Britons who are finding their wages undercut by mass EU immigration. I'm all right Jack. The working class can kiss my arse". Unfortunately for you, a large number of the lower orders you so very clearly despise came out and made their voices heard.

This does need some sort of answer but it is hard to be both brief and polite. It's obviously wrong on many counts.

a) Many working class people did vote to remain. Equally many of those I guess Gutfright would classify as "them" voted to leave.

b) People voted to remain on the basis of many things. I can't think of one which relates to a conscious decision to stuff the working class. For instance concern about the long term future of Europe (which has been much derided but is a real fear). Europe has a long term history of wars, and in wars the working class suffers most.

c) The facts (or at least the best information I can get) is that immigration from the EU has reduced wages at the low end by about 1%. That's bad if you are directly affected but is offset by the increase in the minimum wage (I refuse to call it the living wage). However the real point is that it's about balance. The EU seems to have been good for the economy and that doesn't just benefit the rich - it creates jobs.

OK. So "Leave" won. I regret that, but I respect the decision. We can either go forward from here working out what to do next on a cooperative basis, or let the referendum create a split between whatever view of "us" and "them" you happen to have. That will benefit the right wing, who absolutely do not have the interest of the working class at heart.
 

Antman

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I voted out but am slightly worried about the reasoning for some people based on something one of the cleaners said to me at work tonight.

"Will England be unable to take part in the next European Football Championship if they leave the EU" :roll:

Are you sure that was a serious question?;)
 

Tetchytyke

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I note that all of the umpteen squillion EU polls on these forums show an overwhelming support for remaining in the European Union.

As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.

Are we?

The difference in votes was a smudge under 1.5m, with 51.8% wanting out and 48.2% wanting in. It's as near as damn it 50/50. I'd say the split on here was about 50/50 too.

It certainly isn't an overwhelming majority.
 

Harbornite

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I'll have you know I was doing it deliberately and witlessly, thank you very much.

Well the repetition of "British" was unnecessary and makes you sound like a member of UKIP or Britain first who wants to force their nationality down people's throats. Take it from me, nobody cares about your obsession with Britain. It isn't the 1950's any more. Also you seem to struggle at maths, as 48% represents a significant part of the population and not the exact oposite of what Brits want, to use your phrase.
 
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Busaholic

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I'm old, have not been out of the UK since about 1992 and voted Remain, What is left of the UK will collectively and non-collectively rue the day 23rd June 2016 in years to come. Nigel Farage was right (for once in his life, and for the wrong reason) it will go down in history - comparable to the day when Neville Chamberlain came back to Croydon Aerodrome clutching a piece of paper from Herr Hitler and proclaimed 'peace in our time'.
 

Gutfright

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Given that your own postings on this forum are overwhelmingly in either the quiz forum or in the political threads in the general discussion forum my theory is that you're not a train fan.

Maybe this will change your mind? [/shameless self-promotion]
 

Gutfright

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What was that? YouTube couldn't even play the whole thing before it gave an error?!

Dammit! It was just my first weird attempt at making a train video. A few EMT HSTs and Meridians, and the occasional glimpse of an XC Turbostar. You didn't miss out on much tbh.
 

furnessvale

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I'm old, have not been out of the UK since about 1992 and voted Remain, What is left of the UK will collectively and non-collectively rue the day 23rd June 2016 in years to come. Nigel Farage was right (for once in his life, and for the wrong reason) it will go down in history - comparable to the day when Neville Chamberlain came back to Croydon Aerodrome clutching a piece of paper from Herr Hitler and proclaimed 'peace in our time'.

And there's me thinking that David Cameron's humiliating return from his EU "negotiations", having been firmly put in his place by our EU masters, was a more realistic comparison.
 

Busaholic

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And there's me thinking that David Cameron's humiliating return from his EU "negotiations", having been firmly put in his place by our EU masters, was a more realistic comparison.

The latter fooled no-one, not even Cameron's own mother I suspect.
 

furnessvale

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The latter fooled no-one, not even Cameron's own mother I suspect.

I don't know. He managed to fool 48%* of the UK population into thinking the EU had given him something.

* I will concede that whatever percentage of the UK population actually want to be part of the United States of Europe can be deducted from that 48%.
 

AM9

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I don't know. He managed to fool 48%* of the UK population into thinking the EU had given him something.

* I will concede that whatever percentage of the UK population actually want to be part of the United States of Europe can be deducted from that 48%.

And the likelihood that an undefined but significant proportion of the 52% of votes were cast on the basis of keeping immigrants* out and 'punishing' the current administration for various random non-Europe issues.

* That would include anybody who survived crossing the Mediterranean in an overloaded boat.
 
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