Why can't ALL tickets be mobile and/or Print at Home?

[Bletchleyite]

This can't happen as described. Barriers cannot be closed if there is no staff member monitoring, either in person or via an intercom.

In an extreme case such as the staff member being attacked or taken suddenly ill, there is a red plunger (usually behind a break glass panel) which when operated opens all the gates.

It certainly has happened to me more than once. Staff were meant to be monitoring it remotely but weren't. I ended up barging through.

I've had the same on a LU station years ago and the emergency plunger was broken!

 

[SAPhil]

This can't happen as described. A gateline cannot be in operation fully closed if there is no staff member monitoring, either in person or via an intercom.

In an extreme case such as the staff member being attacked or taken suddenly ill, there is a red plunger (usually behind a break glass panel) which when operated opens all the gates.

Shouldn't rather than can't, I feel! West Hampstead Overground is a new station but there are still staff in the old bit. I suspect they were having a chat in the old station!

 

[hwl]

If the codes were printed on the credit card tickets then they could get rid of magtripes completely.



Are there any figures for the number of gate activations from
1) Maltese cross paper tickets
2) Non maltese cross paper tickets
3) Contactless tickets

3) contactless /oyster was well over half the UK rail total pre Covid

 

[Wallsendmag]

3) contactless /oyster was well over half the UK rail total pre Covid

A) Be careful using UK in Railway terms, nearly all references should be GB as NIR aren't part of the Nartional Rail network.
B) Are you sure?

 

[hwl]

A) Be careful using UK in Railway terms, nearly all references should be GB as NIR aren't part of the National Rail network.
B) Are you sure?

GB (Ni is a rounding error in this discussion)
Yes, have a look at the TfL ticketing data (You'll need to register to access the more interesting data). Most people don't realise what a large proportion of total GB rail (including light rail and metros) ticketing is London Underground (at 99+%) contactless /oyster for seasons (London commuter TOC are also have a very high proportion and pricing caps travel cards are interlink with LU requirements) and then combine this with ORR data.

People using slightly slower Apple / google pay on phones (by circa half a second) causes enough problems with slower gatelines let alone even slower 2D barcodes. As this is a crowding safety issue this won't change.

Volumes on long distance operators with reservations where print at home might be most applicable were less than 10% of the total journeys pre Covid).

Particularly with the rise in contactless threshold the question is more why most of the rest of the country (excluding long distance) isn't contactless? Which is where I think Shapps's and DfT's thinking currently lies.

 

[Haywain]

Particularly with the rise in contactless threshold the question is more why most of the rest of the country (excluding long distance) isn't contactless? Which is where I think Shapps's and DfT's thinking currently lies.

Because it's really most suitable for urban areas, and there has been little to no incentive for operators to introduce such a system. It is a far from complicated question to answer.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Imagine the situation you tap in in Inverness get on the 0755 get off at Kings Cross and get the charge notification from your bank. How many paramedics do we need on hand to deal with cardiac events?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because it's really most suitable for urban areas, and there has been little to no incentive for operators to introduce such a system. It is a far from complicated question to answer.

It's also that tickets with cross London transfer are mostly long-distance journeys with a fair proportion of Advances. So it's not about contactless, really. Yes it'd be applicable to some, but not all, and I suspect not even most.

I suppose this takes us back to the option of just removing the free transfer and reducing the fares by a couple of quid to compensate, then you just use contactless. This would have the upside that you could choose to walk or use the bus and save money, or if you're piled up with luggage and so choose a taxi you aren't also paying for a Tube ride you won't use.

 

[mattdickinson]

Imagine the situation you tap in in Inverness get on the 0755 get off at Kings Cross and get the charge notification from your bank. How many paramedics do we need on hand to deal with cardiac events?

Half of the off peak return works out to about £150. Some contactless fares are already around £40 so I don't see people being too shocked by that amount for a much longer journey. In practice, it's more likely that the Contactless Type 3 model would be used (using the card effectively as a ticket matched with a pre-booked journey.)

 

[miami]

If you did so with a valid ticket that is very unlikely (though I agree it is technically a Byelaw offence).

Useful to know for next time Euston staff detain me despite holding a valid ticket.

This can't happen as described. A gateline cannot be in operation fully closed if there is no staff member monitoring, either in person or via an intercom.

Is there a deadmans switch? You say it can't happen, so what interlocks are present to ensure it can't happen, or is it a case it "shouldn't happen", just like barrier staff shouldn't stop people with valid tickets (but do)

 

[35B]

It's also that tickets with cross London transfer are mostly long-distance journeys with a fair proportion of Advances. So it's not about contactless, really. Yes it'd be applicable to some, but not all, and I suspect not even most.

I suppose this takes us back to the option of just removing the free transfer and reducing the fares by a couple of quid to compensate, then you just use contactless. This would have the upside that you could choose to walk or use the bus and save money, or if you're piled up with luggage and so choose a taxi you aren't also paying for a Tube ride you won't use.

The answer to a technical problem is not to take away consumer's rights. There are many times I've had a ticket with cross-London validity, and relied on the fact that it is a single journey. This is not about the headline fare, but how the operators treat me as a paying customer.

It is for the mainline operators, working with TfL, to come up with a way of handling through bookings that both manages the throughput requirements at busy gatelines AND protects customers' existing rights.

 

[mattdickinson]

The answer to a technical problem is not to take away consumer's rights. There are many times I've had a ticket with cross-London validity, and relied on the fact that it is a single journey. This is not about the headline fare, but how the operators treat me as a paying customer.

It is for the mainline operators, working with TfL, to come up with a way of handling through bookings that both manages the throughput requirements at busy gatelines AND protects customers' existing rights.

I think TfL's preferred solution would be for any cross London tickets to be issued on smart cards (disposable or reusable). This would also push the costs back to the TOCs...

 

[JBuchananGB]

OK - This is a Merseyrail sob story. I would love to be able to buy e-tickets for my journey. Tomorrow my wife and I will travel out for the day on Merseyrail. She will require a Daysaver for £5.50 and I will require an Anytime Return (with Senior Railcard discount) for £4.80. (My wife does not have a railcard, Merseyrail do not sell Off-Peak Returns for journeys wholly on their network.)
We will board at a staffed but unbarriered station. I could obtain the Daysaver as a PDF file from Merseyrail using their bespoke system. But that system will not sell me the Anytime Return. I could order the Anytime Return from the website of another TOC, but they will not sell it as an e-ticket, only as TOD. The station I will board at does not have a TVM, and even if it did, Merseyrail TVMs do not support TOD. Solution - purchase the Tickets from the person in the ticket office!

 

[35B]

I think TfL's preferred solution would be for any cross London tickets to be issued on smart cards (disposable or reusable). This would also push the costs back to the TOCs...

And that may well be the right answer. But it is for TfL and the mainline operators to sort out between themselves, not to push the cost and hassle back onto the public.

When I was a kid, the Capitalcard was a great new innovation - the start of integration between mainline and tube fares. The technology's advanced no end, it would be deeply depressing for that to lead to a reversal.

 

[Haywain]

I'll be sure to enquire next time I use the Travel Centre.

Having been to Stevenage today, I have now noticed that you can't get the Super Off Peak Day Travelcard on smartcard - GTR haven't created that option.

 

[Hadders]

Having been to Stevenage today, I have now noticed that you can't get the Super Off Peak Day Travelcard on smartcard - GTR haven't created that option.

Quite farcically, unless it has changed in the last couple of weeks, is that the GTR weekend super off peak day tickets (i.e. not Travelcards) are not e-ticket enabled. The off peak day tickets are enabled (and have been for some time)

 

[Haywain]

Quite farcically, unless it has changed in the last couple of weeks, is that the GTR weekend super off peak day tickets (i.e. not Travelcards) are not e-ticket enabled. The off peak day tickets are enabled (and have been for some time)

What’s really farcical is that they haven’t enabled eTicket fulfilment for any of their ticket types. Instead, they’ve created an identical ticket type with a separate code in (almost) every case. You’d think they don’t want to make life easy for ticket office staff.

 

[Hadders]

What’s really farcical is that they haven’t enabled eTicket fulfilment for any of their ticket types. Instead, they’ve created an identical ticket type with a separate code in (almost) every case. You’d think they don’t want to make life easy for ticket office staff.

Yes, that as well. At one time the identical tickets even had slightly different prices!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see nothing wrong with the card tickets that I have been issued at booking offices since the early 1950s. I keep all my uncollected ones in the small Ferraro Rocher plastic boxes with lids. I like looking through them to compare return journey prices from the Manchester regions in those days of yore with todays prices.

From 1980 to 1984, we held membership of the Manchester Rail Travel Club that offered long day-out journeys with early departure times to places like Largs, Folkestone, Southend, , etc, that were not destinations that you could reach normally without changing. These all have the adult and child tickets as souvenirs.

 

[Stewart2887]

Since when was it obligatory to own a smartphone to do anything, particularly rail travel?

 

[Haywain]

Since when was it obligatory to own a smartphone to do anything, particularly rail travel?

Since never.

 

[Hadders]

Since when was it obligatory to own a smartphone to do anything, particularly rail travel?

It's not and it won't be. But purchasing and displaying an eticket on a smartphone (or printing it off at home) can be very convenient.

I've been to a number of rugby matches and a cricket match in the last few weeks. Tickets delivered to me via email and I simply displayed the ticket on my phone to gain entry to the venue. This is nothing new and no-one bats an eyelid about it. When something similar happens on the railway people tend to get worked up about it for some reason....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has there ever been cases when a network goes down and the ticket information in the "smartphone" cannot be accessed?

 

[Wallsendmag]

It's not and it won't be. But purchasing and displaying an eticket on a smartphone (or printing it off at home) can be very convenient.

I've been to a number of rugby matches and a cricket match in the last few weeks. Tickets delivered to me via email and I simply displayed the ticket on my phone to gain entry to the venue. This is nothing new and no-one bats an eyelid about it. When something similar happens on the railway people tend to get worked up about it for some reason....

This

Has there ever been cases when a network goes down and the ticket information in the "smartphone" cannot be accessed?

Not if the ticket is in you wallet

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since when was it obligatory to own a smartphone to do anything, particularly rail travel?

Mainly because I do not avail myself of internet banking as I believe the banks will never solve the banking schemes of the global criminal fraternity and also see no need for a smartphone, having now reached the age of 76 and never been inconvenienced by the lack of these large hand-held devices, I am happy to live life as I have always done.

I love "winding up" people who tell me how essential to life these contraptions are (I think there was once a thread about that matter some years ago on this website) and if the word "app" is mentioned, I usually "play daft" and ask if an "app" was something that bit Cleopatra...

 

[Hadders]

I think there was once a thread about that matter some years ago on this website

There's a thread on here about it most weeks!

 

[infobleep]

Yes, that as well. At one time the identical tickets even had slightly different prices!

We're they cheaper?

I see nothing wrong with the card tickets that I have been issued at booking offices since the early 1950s. I keep all my uncollected ones in the small Ferraro Rocher plastic boxes with lids. I like looking through them to compare return journey prices from the Manchester regions in those days of yore with todays prices.

From 1980 to 1984, we held membership of the Manchester Rail Travel Club that offered long day-out journeys with early departure times to places like Largs, Folkestone, Southend, , etc, that were not destinations that you could reach normally without changing. These all have the adult and child tickets as souvenirs.

Card tickets are surely much older than the 1950s?

 

[Wallsendmag]

We're they cheaper?


Card tickets are surely much older than the 1950s?

I remember when CCST were introduced, everyone was saying that MI5 was spying on them with the mag stripes. I have an APTIS ticket from their first day in Newcastle, purel by chance

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Card tickets are surely much older than the 1950s?

Of course they are, but I can only speak from personal experience of rail travel on my own since the year our current monarch was crowned, as I was born in 1945.

Edmondson invented his card ticket printing machine a whole century earlier prior to that.

 

[Hadders]

We're they cheaper?

I can't remember tbh, but there was something like 30p difference. Struck me as more c**k up than conspiracy.