Why do trams not require license plates?

[Taunton]

Probably because, as has already been established, trams don't have to have number plates in the UK?

... or elsewhere. As far as I recall, cars, buses and trolleybuses have road vehicle plates in every country I have encountered them, but nowhere has them for trams, they always rely on the painted fleetnumber on the end.

 

[507 001]

... or elsewhere. As far as I recall, cars, buses and trolleybuses have road vehicle plates in every country I have encountered them, but nowhere has them for trams, they always rely on the painted fleetnumber on the end.

They do in Romania;

https://flic.kr/p/2oR1gDn

https://flic.kr/p/2nqcX2P

 

[geoffk]

Trolleybuses are different - they were road vehicles, but not motor vehicles - they carried registration number plates, and trolleybuses were a class on a normal driving licence (issued by local authorities before DVLA was set up in the 70s), but in some respects they were subject to 'light railway' law not road traffic law. Drivers and conductors were licensed by the local authority (or in London by the Metropolitan Police's Public Carriage Office) rather than via the Traffic Commissioners, so again if they had a PSV licence / badge, this was so they could also work buses (some operators ran both and were that flexible. In London, trolleybuses were part of the 'tram and trolleybus' department which was separate from the central bus department until 1950, the terms + conditions were different and the uniform subtly different so at one stage, the two did not mix. As the conversion plan got going, there were a few depots / garages that temporarily operated trolleybuses and buses at the same time, so there was a short time when crews who had nominally become bus crews could work overtime / rest days on trolleybuses.)

Early trolleybuses in the UK didn't carry number plates but they were required to do so by new legislation from around 1920. Practice in Europe varies, some countries requiring plates to be carried, others not. I've just checked my tram photos in Romania and see that trams in Cluj Napoca were indeed carrying plates.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I don't know if anybody else has mentioned it but bicyles also don't require registration plates!

 

[Roger1973]

Early trolleybuses in the UK didn't carry number plates but they were required to do so by new legislation from around 1920.

I didn't know that. Presume they were legally considered 'trackless trams' before that?

Sometimes it takes the law a little while to catch up with new technology...

 

[plugwash]

As an aside to this, what are the legalities around driver licensing? I know that tram operators all specify that a car license is needed, but is this just company policy or is there legislation around this? Could you feasibly drive a tram without a license?

IIRC historically tram drivers did not require a driving license, but this was changed when the "new generation" tramways came in. I understand there was an exception made at the time for existing tram drivers but all such drivers have since retired.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes, trams in the UK have never carried registration numbers, and their drivers were not licensed either as part of the motor vehicle (car) licensing system or via the Traffic Commissioners' PSV licensing system.

I can't think of any tram system where the trams never carried fleet numbers fairly prominently, but not sure if this was a legal requirement.

Prior to the new generation of trams appearing at Blackpool, many tram drivers also held PSV / PCV driving licences, but that was because they had previously been bus drivers, or were employed mainly as bus drivers but drove trams in the summer. (I don't know if that's still the case.)



I understand that the law / driving licence class for trolleybuses stayed in existence for a decade or two after the UK's last trolleybuses ran, but I think the relevant laws have lapsed - it may have happened in the early 90s when the driving licence classes changed and the old separate PSV licence became class D on the Swansea issued licence. (this is from memory so may be adrift.)

Itvwas certainly still a category when I took my (car) test in 1979.
The requirments for all categories were listed on the test invitation, and oOut of interest I read the requirements for the trolleybus test, which included turning to right and left without de-wiring.

The last trolleybus in the UK ran, in Bradford in 1972, I think, so had anyone wanted to resurrect them in 1979 there would have been people still qualified to train and examine new drivers. I doubt many are left now though.

I believe quite a number of tram drivers in Glasgow, which finally shut down in 1962, either couldn't pass the bus driving test or didn't want to, with the heavy steering and crash gearboxes of the era, so transferred to the Glasgow Underground. When that closed in 1977 for modernisation most of them then retired. You must bear in mind that into the 1950s having a car, and thus a driving licence, was something for the more wealthy members of society, which did not embrace potential bus (and lorry) drivers, and many of these came to the job with no licence at all and had to train from scratch - or having been in the army had done this for some, where the military had faced a similar problem.

A similar thing happend in the 1930s. My grandfather drove steam lorries, but his company switched to petrol following the Road Traffic Act which penalised steam because lorries were to be taxed by weight. The RTA also introduced driving tests, and as my grandfather had never driven a vehicle with gears he couldn't (ironically) be "grandfathered" to automatically get a licence.

Unlike many of his generation, he had not learned to drive petrol lorries in the army in WW1.

He never did take a driving test but, sadly, died after being knocked off his bike by a car when my father was still in his teens.

 

[Speed43125]

... or elsewhere. As far as I recall, cars, buses and trolleybuses have road vehicle plates in every country I have encountered them, but nowhere has them for trams, they always rely on the painted fleetnumber on the end.

Likewise, trams in Shanghai have number plates as well. Though I understand this is the only example of them being displayed in China.

 

[reb0118]

Remember folks:-

S is the verb and c is the noun, that is the rule that runs this town.

 

[Gloster]

Glasgow had a number of women tram drivers, but when the trams finished they had to do so too as the Corporation didn’t accept women bus drivers, presumably in the belief that they weren’t strong enough. I don’t know whether they went to the Subway, to be clippies or out.

I don’t know whether there might be some connection with the requirement for fleet numbers on trams with the Railway Clearing House (RCH) rules for private owner wagons. All such wagons had to have a fleet number, in addition to the RCH registration number, even if they were the only wagon in the fleet.