Why don't the Class 345s have toilets?

[CBlue]

When I was a a semi-frequent traveller with National Express East Anglia it was a foolish expectation that the toilet equipped late night trains even had them in service!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

EVAC-train.com supplies vacuum toilets for trains, planes, maglev
The website opens with a picture of a TGV1

 

[cactustwirly]

Most journeys on the 345s will be roughly 20 minutes long. Besides, most stations along the route will have a toilet, so you passengers go there, freeing up space for seats/standing space on the train.

This is not true for the Western end, only for the sections to Abbey Wood and Shenfield.
These trains should have a similar interior to Thameslink for services out to Reading

 

[CBlue]

This is not true for the Western end, only for the sections to Abbey Wood and Shenfield.
These trains should have a similar interior to Thameslink for services out to Reading

How long is it out to Reading on the stopping service? Surely we should fit the S stock on the metropolitan line with toilets too given the journey times possible, with that logic?

 

[Horizon22]

How long is it out to Reading on the stopping service? Surely we should fit the S stock on the metropolitan line with toilets too given the journey times possible, with that logic?

Maidenhead to Abbey Wood would be 67 minutes. I didn't pick Reading because they'd probably take a GWR fast service and change. You can see the estimated journey times here - https://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/

TfL don't have toilets on any stock they run and which may also have been a factor in their design.

 

[CBlue]

Maidenhead to Abbey Wood would be 67 minutes. I didn't pick Reading because they'd probably take a GWR fast service and change. You can see the estimated journey times here - https://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/

TfL don't have toilets on any stock they run and which may also have been a factor in their design.

Indeed - even when they ran toilet fitted Class 317/7s I understand the toilets were locked out of use.

 

[cactustwirly]

How long is it out to Reading on the stopping service? Surely we should fit the S stock on the metropolitan line with toilets too given the journey times possible, with that logic?

Just over an hour from Paddington

 

[Energy]

They would also need somewhere to empty the toilets in the depot...

 

[hwl]

Just over an hour from Paddington

With current timings which are due to reduce...

 

[73128]

Just over an hour from Paddington

Just under an hour to be pedantic. However Ealing Broadway, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford (at least) all have toilets open all reasonable hours on the platform side of any gates should you need to have a break.

 

[PeterC]

I know that when Maidenhead was first proposed as the western terminus there was a lot of campaigning for an extension to Reading. Be careful what you wish for!

 

[Bald Rick]

Not this again.

Their predecessors on the east side didn’t have toilets. Neither did their predecessors.

Neither does the Piccadilly line, for example, and you can be on that for an hour and a half from North London to Heathrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not this again.

Their predecessors on the east side didn’t have toilets. Neither did their predecessors.

Neither does the Piccadilly line, for example, and you can be on that for an hour and a half from North London to Heathrow.

Nor does Merseyrail, which is basically the same idea. Nor LO, which also is.

 

[Aaron Hayward7]

They could probably fit them in on the class 345 trains at a later date should it prove necessary for passengers to use toilets on the train.

I completely agree. Provision of public toilet facilities generally is woeful in this country, and due to the nature of who tends to get issues requiring frequent toilet use and the practicalities thereof it is discriminatory on all three of age, gender and disabililty - does anything else at all get three in one go? Yet it is overlooked.

If I cannot find a toilet I just find a suitable place to go I’m sorry but going a toilet is a human right not a luxury! You are correct as the provision of toilet facilities are poor in this country considering how rich this country is!

 

[cactustwirly]

Not this again.

Their predecessors on the east side didn’t have toilets. Neither did their predecessors.

Neither does the Piccadilly line, for example, and you can be on that for an hour and a half from North London to Heathrow.

But the Piccadilly line doesn't run out to Reading does it...

And it's not £15 for a single journey either.
It's like saying trains to Horsham don't need toilets

 

[Horizon22]

But the Piccadilly line doesn't run out to Reading does it...

And it's not £15 for a single journey either.
It's like saying trains to Horsham don't need toilets

Surely distance isn't the issue but time?

 

[Bald Rick]

But the Piccadilly line doesn't run out to Reading does it...

Location doesn’t have anything to do with it. It’s typical journey time. Paddington to Reading is (or will be) under an hour on these trains. That’s the same as Kings Cross to Heathrow by Piccadilly. What’s the difference?

It's like saying trains to Horsham don't need toilets

Some trains to Horsham didn’t have them. Some SWR trains to Guildford, and dare I say Reading still don’t.

 

[JonathanH]

Some SWR trains to Guildford, and dare I say Reading still don’t

That is true but it is also something being put right with the next generation of trains on those routes.

 

[py_megapixel]

Even if there were going to be trains all the way through from Reading to Shenfield you'd have to be insane to use them for the whole thing. It would always be hugely faster to go into Paddington with Great Western and out again with Greater Anglia from Stratford (obviously with a Crossrail leg in between).

 

[cactustwirly]

Even if there were going to be trains all the way through from Reading to Shenfield you'd have to be insane to use them for the whole thing. It would always be hugely faster to go into Paddington with Great Western and out again with Greater Anglia from Stratford (obviously with a Crossrail leg in between).

Unless you live in Maidenhead for example

 

[306024]

Even if there were going to be trains all the way through from Reading to Shenfield you'd have to be insane to use them for the whole thing. It would always be hugely faster to go into Paddington with Great Western and out again with Greater Anglia from Stratford (obviously with a Crossrail leg in between).

Or indeed crossed legs in between.

 

[Ianno87]

They could probably fit them in on the class 345 trains at a later date should it prove necessary for passengers to use toilets on the train.

Plus all the equipment in depots. If there's room.

 

[py_megapixel]

Unless you live in Maidenhead for example

Or indeed crossed legs in between.

Indeed...

I do think a couple of toilets would have been a good idea (preferably clearly marked on the outside and on the PEDs); the point I was making was that whether there will be direct trains all the way from Reading to Shenfield is pretty irrelevant.

 

[306024]

While having every sympathy with those that need to use the bathroom frequently, these trains were designed pre Covid for 1500 capacity. Toilets would be a total inconvenience during crush loading, and certainly won’t be fitted retrospectively. Even at 1000 capacity by the time you joined the queue to use the toilet you’d have passed your stop.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Onboard toilets are not necessary for the vast majority of flows

That's... slightly unfortunate wording.

Maybe we need a po(o)em? Come, friendly bogs, and call at Slough...

 

[Bletchleyite]

While having every sympathy with those that need to use the bathroom frequently, these trains were designed pre Covid for 1500 capacity. Toilets would be a total inconvenience during crush loading, and certainly won’t be fitted retrospectively. Even at 1000 capacity by the time you joined the queue to use the toilet you’d have passed your stop.

A 12-car 700 appears to have a total capacity of about 1700 according to Wiki, and that has them.

 

[Bald Rick]

Toilets would be a total inconvenience

As per the sign at Ipswich:

“Toilets closed, we apologise for the inconvenience”

 

[Carntyne]

There's no DDA issue as there aren't any toilets. If there was a standard or "space saver" toilet and no DDA compliant one, then you'd have a point.

 

[43096]

As per the sign at Ipswich:

“Toilets closed, we apologise for the inconvenience”

"We apologise for the inconvenience of this convenience being closed. We hope you are not too inconvenienced."

 

[D365]

A 12-car 700 appears to have a total capacity of about 1700 according to Wiki, and that has them.

You're right, but a 12-car 700 is 30 metres longer.