Why don't through trains run to Cornish branches?

[Deafdoggie]

I've looked up the departures from Hayle, and it gets ~1tph (with gaps). That's hardly nothing. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/HYL/2018/09/05/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

But still less than St Erth & Camborne. Camborne is, of course, much more of a town, and very popular with the local Hayle residents. St Erth station exists solely due to St Ives.
The business Hayle taxis do at St Erth shows the demand for Hayle, if only the trains stopped!
Too many trains don’t call.

 

[Esker-pades]

But still less than St Erth & Camborne. Camborne is, of course, much more of a town, and very popular with the local Hayle residents. St Erth station exists solely due to St Ives.
The business Hayle taxis do at St Erth shows the demand for Hayle, if only the trains stopped!
Too many trains don’t call.

This sounds like the Glf Street problem. ScotRail will only increase services when patronage increases, but residents will only use the station when there is an enhanced service. Otherwise, they go to another station. The cycle continues with demand existing, but TOCs or the DfT not willing to provide additional trains because the patronage is low.

 

[edwin_m]

I think Fowey may reopen one day, probably 20 yrs, or when china clay traffic becomes insignificant. The line is open to Carne Point, 1 mile from the Town.

Falmouth was proposed several times, today the passing loop would prevent longer through train stopping at Penryn, because of shortened platforms/ loop. Also the terminus platform would have to be lengthened - not easy, either block the docks branch or gain land at the far end.
St Ives more through trains to from Penzance would be good. There are only few today.
The Newquay service is sad today, thanks to the removal of platforms at Newquay in the 80's. No good for commuting, and Summer Saturdays the local service is reduced to 1 local train per day. Long distance train no longer stop at stations on the branch.

Unlikely the docks branch at Falmouth will ever see a train again, and I think it is officially closed, so the platform at Falmouth Docks could be extended towards Truro if necessary. There's a modern block just beyond the buffer stops which isn't actually on the line of the track, but trains would be very close to it if they extended the platform that way. Falmouth Town a short distance away is more used and probably harder to extend, as the platform is perched on an embankmant and I don't think this part was ever double track.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This sounds like the Glf Street problem. ScotRail will only increase services when patronage increases, but residents will only use the station when there is an enhanced service. Otherwise, they go to another station. The cycle continues with demand existing, but TOCs or the DfT not willing to provide additional trains because the patronage is low.

That is exactly the problem!

 

[tsr]

This might be better in the thread about controversial opinions, but one of the appealling things I find about the Looe branch in particular is how “tucked away” it feels. It’s not sensible with my rail staff hat on - indeed I have been on summer weekend services with about 10 passengers! But it feels like a bit of an adventure to be on a little Sprinter trundling away from the mainline, and I’ve been known to enjoy that.

I’m in agreement that Looe would be impractical for through trains anyway. You’d probably have to rebuild the station at Looe for longer trains and maybe modify the layout at Coombe Junction Halt. (Similar types of arguments would likely apply for Gunnislake.)

Ilfracombe station was inconveniently situated on a hill above the town about a mile from the seafront. If you were going to reopen anything it should be the Padstow branch, from Bodmin Road, sorry, Parkway. With the fashionability of Padstow it would be heaving with passengers, but you would have to demolish some of Wadebridge!

To be fair, I found nothing wrong with the former location of Ilfracombe station when I was in the area last year. If it had remained open, I dare say I would have found it within comfortable walking distance of everywhere I wanted to go. Ilfracombe is a pretty pleasant place to walk around, even the hilly bits, and the railway looks on paper as if it was situated a bit better than former seaside branches such as Lyme Regis, which really were inaccessible! (It might be different in the depths of winter, when you would want to minimise walking time so far as possible, but such stations would get far less custom at such times of year anyway.)

 

[Crossover]

Looe would also be out because of the way the branch is linked to the mainline at Liskeard. In fact I don’t know if passengers are allowed to be carried on the sharply curved link.

From what I have heard, even a railtour down there had to kick everyone off to do the move over the curve and then pick up in the bay again!

 

[yorksrob]

Were it not for the china clay business operating on the Fowey River and the line from Fowey Station to St Blazey being given over to trucks carrying the stuff, there might still be a branch line service there. It would be difficult to connect directly to the mainline, so access from Plymouth and the rest of Britain would be from the Lostwithiel end. It would be possible in high season to run through via Fowey, St Blazey and on to Newquay if it was deemed necessary. The only bit missing would be how to get passengers from the south west extremeties via the main line through Par onto the extended branch, - maybe a shuttle bus (free to ticket holders).

I don't think I'd have any difficulty changing at Lostwithiel from Penzance, assuming a few more main line trains stopped there.

 

[yorksrob]

I think Fowey may reopen one day, probably 20 yrs, or when china clay traffic becomes insignificant. The line is open to Carne Point, 1 mile from the Town.

Falmouth was proposed several times, today the passing loop would prevent longer through train stopping at Penryn, because of shortened platforms/ loop. Also the terminus platform would have to be lengthened - not easy, either block the docks branch or gain land at the far end.
St Ives more through trains to from Penzance would be good. There are only few today.
The Newquay service is sad today, thanks to the removal of platforms at Newquay in the 80's. No good for commuting, and Summer Saturdays the local service is reduced to 1 local train per day. Long distance train no longer stop at stations on the branch.

I'd hope for sooner than 20 years, so long as some arrangement could be found with the china clay terminal.

 

[30907]

Were there ever direct intercity services to Looe, St.Ives or Falmouth? Certainly the platform lengths at Looe and St.Ives preclude anything much more than a sprinter based service running now.

In days of yore the best you could probably hope for was a slip coach to be shunted onto the branch train I would have thought...

Falmouth retained a through summer service on weekdays till about 1965. St Ives had a complete train on summer Saturdays until a couple of years earlier. Both from London only, whereas Newquay has always had services from the north as well.

 

[PHILIPE]

Falmouth retained a through summer service on weekdays till about 1965. St Ives had a complete train on summer Saturdays until a couple of years earlier. Both from London only, whereas Newquay has always had services from the north as well.

Falmouth had a Saturdays Paddington service in the late nineties, Class 50 worked.

 

[Basher]

I think If possible they should reopen the illfracombe line.

Just had memories brought back to me, about Illfracombe. When I was about 10 yrs old late 1950s I had a holiday there, travelled by train from the north east of England and it took 13 hours, great for train spotting seeing all these unusual steam locomotives which never came to the north. I remember travelling back and my parents and I had to sit on the floor of the guards van. Them were the days!
]

 

[30907]

Falmouth had a Saturdays Paddington service in the late nineties, Class 50 worked.

Thanks, missed that. How much of it fitted in the platform at Docks?

 

[Puppetfinger]

Unlikely the docks branch at Falmouth will ever see a train again, and I think it is officially closed, so the platform at Falmouth Docks could be extended towards Truro if necessary. There's a modern block just beyond the buffer stops which isn't actually on the line of the track, but trains would be very close to it if they extended the platform that way. Falmouth Town a short distance away is more used and probably harder to extend, as the platform is perched on an embankmant and I don't think this part was ever double track.

The line into the Docks actually runs / ran adjacent to the station, and is still there just about, whilst totally overgrown with foliage, the access is still there and could be used again if cleared, the student flats behind the station will make no difference.

There are many ambitions by developers to build more student housing in that very area, however this has always been opposed by the Docks, with one reason given that they may want to reinstate the rail line at some point in the future. Regardless of which, the platform at Falmouth Docks station could easily be extended too accommodate longer trains and not affect the Docks link.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks, missed that. How much of it fitted in the platform at Docks?

I'm not sure of the working at the Docks but I have seen a picture of it, 0910 Falmouth to Paddington, 0n 25/06/77 it was worked by 50004 load 6. I think it attached more carriages at Plymouth and ran in one direction only. There are pictures here:-

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc

 

[Busaholic]

Unlikely the docks branch at Falmouth will ever see a train again, and I think it is officially closed, so the platform at Falmouth Docks could be extended towards Truro if necessary. There's a modern block just beyond the buffer stops which isn't actually on the line of the track, but trains would be very close to it if they extended the platform that way. Falmouth Town a short distance away is more used and probably harder to extend, as the platform is perched on an embankmant and I don't think this part was ever double track.

A few years ago, when the ferry link between Penzance and Scilly was under intense scrutiny, a fantasist was proposing that Falmouth be used instead of Penzance, thus adding many miles and a lot more time to the journey. To top it all, the chief fantasist said that ''main line trains would be waiting at Falmouth waiting to whisk passengers to London!!'' A sarcastic letter from me to the newspaper 'reporting' this got published the following week.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm not sure of the working at the Docks but I have seen a picture of it, 0910 Falmouth to Paddington, 0n 25/06/77 it was worked by 50004 load 6. I think it attached more carriages at Plymouth and ran in one direction only. There are pictures here:-

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc

Forget all my posts on this service. Apologies for the mix up of dates in my head

 

[twpsaesneg]

Falmouth retained a through summer service on weekdays till about 1965. St Ives had a complete train on summer Saturdays until a couple of years earlier. Both from London only, whereas Newquay has always had services from the north as well.

Wow - amazing what nuggets come up!

I'd be interested to know what the loading were like especially for St. Ives. Falmouth I can kind of understand, St. Ives must have been a faff operationally.

 

[Master29]

Ilfracombe station was inconveniently situated on a hill above the town about a mile from the seafront. If you were going to reopen anything it should be the Padstow branch, from Bodmin Road, sorry, Parkway. With the fashionability of Padstow it would be heaving with passengers, but you would have to demolish some of Wadebridge!

I think most of Padstow would be happy to do that but lets be honest. Closing the Padstow branch line has proven a big boo boo on Beechings part. As you said it is a fashionable place now.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nobody seems to have mentioned so far is that, at a time when the number of long distance trains in service is designed to meet the exact needs of the agreed long distance timetable, then any train diverted onto a local branch has to be balanced by an equivalent amount of “train time” lost on the main line. Or put another way, what happens to the Penzance passengers while you go to Falmouth?

 

[Mikey C]

This might be better in the thread about controversial opinions, but one of the appealling things I find about the Looe branch in particular is how “tucked away” it feels. It’s not sensible with my rail staff hat on - indeed I have been on summer weekend services with about 10 passengers! But it feels like a bit of an adventure to be on a little Sprinter trundling away from the mainline, and I’ve been known to enjoy that.

I’m in agreement that Looe would be impractical for through trains anyway. You’d probably have to rebuild the station at Looe for longer trains and maybe modify the layout at Coombe Junction Halt. (Similar types of arguments would likely apply for Gunnislake.)

The short walk to the separate branch has never bothered me. Looking at the direction of the connection, the only through trains you could run (without a reversal on the mainline) would be from the Cornwall end, which is possibly the wrong way round anyway!

 

[yorksrob]

The short walk to the separate branch has never bothered me. Looking at the direction of the connection, the only through trains you could run (without a reversal on the mainline) would be from the Cornwall end, which is possibly the wrong way round anyway!

Indeed. I've changed between those two routes on many occasions, and the connection times are never particularly strenuous. I've had far worse in stations with more conventional layouts.

 

[InterCity:125]

The short walk to the separate branch has never bothered me. Looking at the direction of the connection, the only through trains you could run (without a reversal on the mainline) would be from the Cornwall end, which is possibly the wrong way round anyway!

Penzance-st Ives is already a service.

 

[Cowley]

From what I have heard, even a railtour down there had to kick everyone off to do the move over the curve and then pick up in the bay again!

That sounds familiar now you say it.
I think as said by others, on the whole it all works pretty well as it is, the only branch that doesn’t is probably the Newquay branch but bringing train loads of holiday makers in during summer at least takes a little pressure off the local roads.
I would like to see the Fowey branch reopen to passenger trains one day, I think it could be quite successful.

 

[4141]

For those interested in holiday trains in ye olden times in Cornwall, this thread may be of interest - post#26 especially...
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/summer-saturday-services-1950s.135629/

 

[joncombe]

For those interested in holiday trains in ye olden times in Cornwall, this thread may be of interest - post#26 especially...
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/summer-saturday-services-1950s.135629/

Thanks that confirms what I thought that there was at one time a through service from Paddington to St Ives.

I don't think it would be possible now, because the station platforms were greatly reduced to make room for a bigger car park. Though I suppose at least the line survived I believe it was scheduled to close in the Beeching report but given a last minute reprise.

This branch seems unusual too in that there are two bay platforms for it at St Erth I believe, though I've never seen them both in use. I did wonder if that was a left over from holiday trains.

Whilst the freuent trains on the Truro - Falmouth line does mean it's not possible to run through trains any more I do find it very encouraging to see how that line has boomed. I do remember in the late 1990s, it was a less than hourly service, often poorly connecting with the mainline and with the trains usually extremely quiet. Now it has train every 30 minutes, which always seem to be busy. It does show that if you give a line a frequent and reliable service they will use it. I do wonder if similar could happen with Newquay, if any of the TOCs could be bothered to give it a go, by running more frequent trains, and at times useful for commuters too.

The Looe line was another where the timetable used to be useluss for anyone wanting to commute (E.g. to Plymouth), but it is also much improved now with trains running at times to make a commute to Plymouth viable.

 

[Cowley]

Re the Newquay branch - If proposals talked about in the 1980s to reopen and upgrade to passenger standards the link between St Dennis Junction and Burngullow Junction had happened so that the branch trains ran from St Austell instead of Par it might have all looked quite different.

 

[joncombe]

Re the Newquay branch - If proposals talked about in the 1980s to reopen and upgrade to passenger standards the link between St Dennis Junction and Burngullow Junction had happened so that the branch trains ran from St Austell instead of Par it might have all looked quite different.

I recall those talks happened again in the late 1990s. There was a low railway bridge over the A30 at Goss Moor, which was fairly regularly being hit by lorries and one proposal was to close the stretch from Par to the A30 and re-open the line from St Austell instead, so the bridge could be removed. However when the A30 was upgraded to dual carriageway it was moved a little further north, so it no longer needs to cross the railway line. The old road is still there (as is the bridge) but it's unclassified now.

 

[4141]

I recall those talks happened again in the late 1990s. There was a low railway bridge over the A30 at Goss Moor, which was fairly regularly being hit by lorries and one proposal was to close the stretch from Par to the A30 and re-open the line from St Austell instead, so the bridge could be removed. However when the A30 was upgraded to dual carriageway it was moved a little further north, so it no longer needs to cross the railway line. The old road is still there (as is the bridge) but it's unclassified now.

Yes, I seem to recall that no matter how bright the yellow and black warning stripes, it was forever getting whacked by HGV's!

 

[Crossover]

This branch seems unusual too in that there are two bay platforms for it at St Erth I believe, though I've never seen them both in use. I did wonder if that was a left over from holiday trains.

What's left seems to be just something that may fit part of a loco
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Erth_railway_station#/media/File:Bay_platforms_@_St_Erth.jpg

 

[Cowley]

What's left seems to be just something that may fit part of a loco
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Erth_railway_station#/media/File:Bay_platforms_@_St_Erth.jpg

Is it numbered? I’m assuming not as I think St Erth only has 3 platforms?
Such a lovely little station. Probably one my favourites actually.