Why is advice offered to those who cheat the system

[WesternLancer]

For anyone who's been watching the Channel 5 programs on London fare dodging - I can understand the outrage at seeing the blatant cheating a goodly portion of passengers indulge in and the shameless lying to try and wriggle out of a PF/prosecution. Admittedly only the most extreme examples are broadcast. One of the common fiddles is purchasing a Zone 1&2 Travelcard loaded to Oyster but travelling from outside those zones - either through a non gated station or tailgating through the wide access gate with a fake tap - in/out. Another favourite is using a family members Freedom / Job Seekers / 60+ . Both such scams have appeared in this forum . Hopefully the remorse the OP's offer is genuine - only they know for sure. On that basis advice should be offered - even if its a simple as tell the truth when caught.

I though it would have been a better and more balanced programme (only seen one) if the TV researchers had taken a couple of cases like some off this forum (eg the one not so long ago about TfL / GW ticket validity IIRC) and illustrated cases where the TfL staff actually get it wrong occasionally - rather than a full hour of the various ways scammers get found and caught - and presumably another hour of the same next week....

 

[Mathew S]

I though it would have been a better and more balanced programme (only seen one) if the TV researchers had taken a couple of cases like some off this forum (eg the one not so long ago about TfL / GW ticket validity IIRC) and illustrated cases where the TfL staff actually get it wrong occasionally - rather than a full hour of the various ways scammers get found and caught - and presumably another hour of the same next week....

On a practical level, making programmes like that requires TfLs cooperation. Thus there's an incentive not to paint them in a bad light... especially if you ever want to make a series 2.

On the subject of this thread, it's not often I post here because it's rare I have anything constructive to add over what others have already said. But, everyone is entitled to advice, no matter how foolish they may (allegedly) have been and, if nothing else, these threads are a valuable source of information on navigating the fares system for the rest of us.

 

[WesternLancer]

On a practical level, making programmes like that requires TfLs cooperation. Thus there's an incentive not to paint them in a bad light... especially if you ever want to make a series 2.

On the subject of this thread, it's not often I post here because it's rare I have anything constructive to add over what others have already said. But, everyone is entitled to advice, no matter how foolish they may (allegedly) have been and, if nothing else, these threads are a valuable source of information on navigating the fares system for the rest of us.

That's true - tho most orgs comms people will appreciate that the media needs to show some balance, but as you say, they may not invite you back (or they may get a whole series focusing on their errors...., but that would cost more to make I suspect.

 

[js1000]

This is in no way critical. But if people try to defraud the system by paying incorrect fares or using invalid passes then why is advice offered in this forum on how to minimise punishment?

Everyone has a right to at least be heard. Innocent until proven guilty.

Conversely, it would be fair to say train companies staff do not always exercise discretion. This enlightening forum has brought to light some disappointing instances of disabled passengers being charged penalty fares when this should have never happened. If this forum never existed we would never known.

Neither party, passenger or train company, should be given a la carte to defraud one another.

Forum members seem a friendly bunch, they dont turn around and say "good, you got what you deserved" but they offer advice to people who probably would never come on this forum

Simply not true. You'll see many instances where the original poster has been criticised for travelling without a ticket where an opportunity existed clearly existed to buy one before boarding or reaching the destination. Furthermore, many will 'advise' the original poster to simply pay up and not do it again.

So forum members do say "you got what you deserved" in a polite way and will offer 'advice' (as you call it) which would be no different from what the train companies are asking. (i.e. pay the fine and don't evade fares again)

 

[najaB]

Conversely, it would be fair to say train companies staff do not always exercise discretion.

If it is always exercised then, by definition, it's not discretion.

Furthermore, many will 'advise' the original poster to simply pay up and not do it again.

Many times that is actually the best course of action.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Simply not true. You'll see many instances where the original poster has been criticised for travelling without a ticket where an opportunity existed clearly existed to buy one before boarding or reaching the destination. Furthermore, many will 'advise' the original poster to simply pay up and not do it again

For a recent example (which admittedly post-dates the start of this thread) see the discussion about car parking at Aintree. Please also note the comparisons drawn between advice here (which may include 'pay up') and the advice given re parking penalties on pepipoo.com (which would seem to be about how to always avoid a fine). Yes, different websites looking at different issues, but apparently with different ethoses as well.

 

[jfollows]

Pepipoo takes as its starting point the assumption that the people who run private car parks are rogues and scoundrels with the only motivation being to extract as much money as possible out of as many people as possible. This assumption is often valid.
If a similar model were applied to the railways, then revenue enforcement officers would not be paid any salary but instead allowed to keep all the money they "raise" from their "victims".
Fortunately the railways don't run that way, and most contributors accept that people who don't pay their fares should suffer the consequences. It also helps to advise when the railway companies don't handle things properly, which is in the minority of cases but unfortunately does happen. Especially in these circumstances it is helpful to explain to the possible transgressor what process needs to be followed and what the law requires.
Almost all of the comments I see on the subject in this forum are positive and supportive and very rarely seem aimed to help someone "get off".

 

[Mathew S]

If you want to override the default, buy a ticket elsewhere.

And what about area-based tickets, season tickets, tickets valid for multiple start/destinations, concessionary tickets, Railcard discounts, complimentary tickets, travel rouchers, rail warrants... etc.
The existing smart card tickets don't work properly yet, so let's not run before we can walk, maybe?