Why is it illegal to sell rail tickets?

[Old Timer]

There is no need.

The railway ticket remains the property of the Railway Company to whom it must be surrendered upon demand.

If a person sells it, they have sold something that is NOT theirs to sell, thus they have committed theft from the Railway Company as you rightly state.

The person receiving it is guilty of receiving stolen goods, as well as other offences, such as Theft

 

[yorkie]

I may have missed something in all the posts. I buy tickets online for my parents who have senior railcards. Noone here would have an issue with that. Would a ticket office sell me the ticket considering I look a little young for a senior railcard. I remember when I was younger a ticket office would sell me 2 returns with yp railcard when I had both cards without the card holder present.

That is not transferring a ticket at all and is perfectly legitimate. If the ticket office staff act like jobsworths then they are only doing themselves out of a job as the solution is to book online. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

 

[leerail]

Interesting reading all the replies.

So it looks like no one checks it unless the ticket requires the use of a railcard
(So if you have a valid ticket which doesn't require any railcard no one will bat an eyelid)

I've just had a browse through the well known auction site and there are train tickets being sold there as well as coach tickets

I don't think there are any rules about selling / transferring coach tickets. Whats the difference?

 

[Greenback]

For coach travel condition 2.3 of the National Express Terms and Conditions forbids transferring a ticket. It states tickets remain the property of National Express Caoches, there fore I presume that anyone selling a coach ticket is breaking the law.

 

[leerail]

I think selling rail and coach tickets is in reality an unenforceable law just like it is illegal to record a tv program on your vcr or taping a song from the radio.

 

[tony_mac]

For coach travel condition 2.3 of the National Express Terms and Conditions forbids transferring a ticket. It states tickets remain the property of National Express Caoches, there fore I presume that anyone selling a coach ticket is breaking the law.

There is a statutory provision under the Railway Byelaws that prevents selling tickets; I very much doubt that there is anything similar for coaches / buses etc.

Selling rail tickets is at least enforced to some extent, try and list one on ebay and see what happens!

 

[Failed Unit]

It would be nice to think the are removed but there are so many people that buy concert tickets just to put them on eBay. Meaning the people that really wanted to go either pay more or just can't go. It is like many things we have debated on here illegal but very difficult to prove or enforce. For example I buy a travel card and go to London in the morning go home and give it to you and off you go to the pub in the evening. Illegal but there would be no reason to suspect you haven't purchased the ticket yourself.

 

[rail-britain]

I know loads of people that act as ticket intermediaries (often termed as touts)
I enquired to ATOC about it, and they advised that it was perfectly within the terms as the ticket was being bought on behalf of someone and being sent direct to the customer (the intermediary never sees the ticket, just the receipt and payment method)
Effectively the customer is paying a commission for the advice

I've been doing it for years
I know ATOC don't like it, but rather than saying a blank "no", they have actually been quite accommodating
I suppose the opinion is that so long as you are up-front about it then they know who you are and what volume of sales you make direct to the TOCs
They even go one stage further and send me all the relevant ticket booking material every six months that I ask for

 

[leerail]

If the seller of the ticket sells it in good faith i.e. at face value or at a loss and not selling at any profit then I can't see any problem with that.
Obviously if one person (a tout) buys in a bulk at a very low price and decides to sell them on for profit then this is where I think the law should (but in reality doesn't) intervene

 

[jon0844]

I think selling rail and coach tickets is in reality an unenforceable law just like it is illegal to record a tv program on your vcr or taping a song from the radio.

It isn't unenforceable, it's just that nobody bothers to enforce it!! There is a difference, albeit a very pedantic one!

 

[rail-britain]

There is a big difference between a "tout" and someone just desparate to sell a ticket they want to dispose of

It's a shame ATOC intervened at eBay UK to have "all" rail tickets and vouchers banned
At least people who could no longer use a rail ticket could then offer them, typically selling at between 25% and 75% of face value (ie, a loss)

Compare that to a "tout"
Many obtain tickets from third party sources, often at "nil" cost
Therefore this is purely a profit, and in effect a business transaction

However this is not be confused "resellers" and agents who are authorised to sell tickets, often at a price of their own choosing
I am an authorised agent, and the annual licence isn't cheap!
I used to have my own machine, but the criteria was relaxed last year and it is now all done online
The downside is that the seating plans were removed and I now have to obtain them from the TOCs
Some are cooperative and send them out without any problem, others send me confidentiality forms to sign before they will release them

More recently the Fast Ticket Machines required that the person buying the tickets had to use the same debit or credit card to pick up the tickets
However, the person buying them wasn't necessarily the same person
A typical example was a parent buying a ticket for a student son or daughter
So one level of security to prevent "tout" also affected genuine customers

 

[Greenback]

One of the reasons that the rule isn't enforced against most people is probably because it's designed to deal with the professional touts, rather than amateurs disposing of tickets they don't need.