Why is LU stock taken through Aylesbury?

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KingDaveRa

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I've often wondered about this, and I have a vague idea why it may be the case, but I wondered if anybody can confirm.

When the S stock was recently delivered to LU, it was being brought down to the LU network via Aylesbury. As I understand it, it's taken out to Calvert along the remaining bit of the Varsity line, then reversed down into Aylesbury, and onwards to the LU depots.

I've heard of this happening for donkey's years, as somebody told me probably 20 years ago of this happening.

To me, it seems like such an oddly circuitous route. Is it perhaps the only or best way? Are there other routes? Does anything else take that route, perhaps? I heard of a rubbish train from out Bristol/Bath way (called the Avonliner if I remember, like the Binliner from London) which ran to Calvert, which I think necessitated a run around to get to the Calvert Waste Transfer station.

Edit to add, relevant link. http://trains-today.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/special-delivery-london-underground-s.html
 
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The Planner

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7X09 either goes in to LUL at West Ruislip or goes along to Amersham via a reversal at Aylesbury, never heard of it going up to Calvert. It is normally top and tailed by Class 20s as apparently propelling isnt allowed on LUL.
 

AM9

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I've often wondered about this, and I have a vague idea why it may be the case, but I wondered if anybody can confirm.

When the S stock was recently delivered to LU, it was being brought down to the LU network via Aylesbury. As I understand it, it's taken out to Calvert along the remaining bit of the Varsity line, then reversed down into Aylesbury, and onwards to the LU depots.

I've heard of this happening for donkey's years, as somebody told me probably 20 years ago of this happening.

To me, it seems like such an oddly circuitous route. Is it perhaps the only or best way? Are there other routes? Does anything else take that route, perhaps? I heard of a rubbish train from out Bristol/Bath way (called the Avonliner if I remember, like the Binliner from London) which ran to Calvert, which I think necessitated a run around to get to the Calvert Waste Transfer station.

Would it be because the line through Aylesbury runs straight to Neasden, which is home for much of the S stock and has access to all SSL locations? Up until the '60s the Metropolitan Line ran to Aylesbury anyway so it has always been cleared for Met. gauge stock, (obviously loco hauled to Amersham at least).
If it was sent to West Ruislip, it would need to be tube stock as it couldn't get past South Ruislip without more loco assistance (to go over the Wembly Chiltern line to Neasden).
 
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KingDaveRa

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Ohhh, I see, it's Risborough to Aylesbury, then back down to LU at Amersham. I'd presume it comes down the Chiltern Mainline or somesuch to get to Risborough in the first place.

For some reason I thought it all went via Calvert. That makes far more sense now! (d'oh!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would it be because the line through Aylesbury runs straight to Neasden, which is home for much of the S stock and has access to all SSL locations? Up until the '60s the Metropolitan Line ran to Aylesbury anyway so it has always been cleared for Met. gauge stock, (obviously loco hauled to Amersham at least).

I guess so. Neasden is just north of the point where the Chiltern Mainline and the Aylesbury line merge anyway, but I'd always wondered why they didn't run down the Mainline, and reverse back up to Neasden, which seems like a lot less to-ing and fro-ing than doing the Aylesbury leg.
 

causton

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If it was sent to West Ruislip, it would need to be tube stock as it couldn't get past South Ruislip without more loco assistance (to go over the Wembly Chiltern line to Neasden).

Which is weird, as this is where lots have gone ;)

There is a curve at the back of West Ruislip depot which links to the Met line just west of Ruislip so that would get them onto the Met, then to Neasden from there!
 

AM9

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I guess so. Neasden is just north of the point where the Chiltern Mainline and the Aylesbury line merge anyway, but I'd always wondered why they didn't run down the Mainline, and reverse back up to Neasden, which seems like a lot less to-ing and fro-ing than doing the Aylesbury leg.

I think that the most southerly connection between the Chiltern Line down and the Met. line ups is north of Harrow-on the-Hill, so it would be a long reverse manouvre on busy LU tracks.
Princes Risborough to Aylesbury is fairly quiet anyway so slotting in a reverse at each end probably wouldn't be too difficult. There is access from the Chiltern lines/Met. fasts to the Met. slows at Croxley Triangle and at Harrow-on-the-Hill.
 

Andyjs247

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Ohhh, I see, it's Risborough to Aylesbury, then back down to LU at Amersham. I'd presume it comes down the Chiltern Mainline or somesuch to get to Risborough in the first place.

For some reason I thought it all went via Calvert. That makes far more sense now! (d'oh!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I guess so. Neasden is just north of the point where the Chiltern Mainline and the Aylesbury line merge anyway, but I'd always wondered why they didn't run down the Mainline, and reverse back up to Neasden, which seems like a lot less to-ing and fro-ing than doing the Aylesbury leg.

The S stock deliveries to LUL must be a real pain to path being timed for max 60mph. Realtime trains shows a typical schedule here.

Origin is either Derby or Old Dalby - the latter example is routed via Melton Mowbray, Leicester, Knighton Jn (reverse) then via Coalville, Tamworth, Whitacre Jn, Water Orton, Landor St Jn, Tyseley, Banbury, Princes Risborough (reverse), Aylesbury (reverse), Amersham. Or delivery may be to West Ruislip - where there is also access to the Met.

Top and tailed by 2 pairs of 20s. I sometimes hear this train going through Bicester but rarely get to see it as it runs so late. I guess this train has to run late in the evening to avoid conflicting with faster services at busier times.
 
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AM9

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Which is weird, as this is where lots have gone ;)

There is a curve at the back of West Ruislip depot which links to the Met line just west of Ruislip so that would get them onto the Met, then to Neasden from there!

There is a fairly dilapidated line through the southern side of West Ruislip that could be used to get to the curve to the Uxbridge branch of the Met. but it would take three reversals to get there so not that direct. Once again, beyond this rather convoluted link there are no connections from Chiltern Main Line to any LUL tracks all the way into Paddington or Marylebone.
 

The Planner

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We time it as a triple shunt at West Ruislip, Up Loop, Down Main, back to the Down platform, into the down siding and back into the depot. The S stock is also so out of gauge it has to do odd moves at Dorridge.
 

Mojo

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There is a fairly dilapidated line through the southern side of West Ruislip that could be used to get to the curve to the Uxbridge branch of the Met. but it would take three reversals to get there so not that direct. Once again, beyond this rather convoluted link there are no connections from Chiltern Main Line to any LUL tracks all the way into Paddington or Marylebone.
It's not that dilapidated; it is used several times most nights as it's how engineering trains which are based at Ruislip get to any line with the exception of the Central line.

But yes it's most certainly not the best way to get onto the LU network for the S Stock deliveries.
 

KingDaveRa

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We time it as a triple shunt at West Ruislip, Up Loop, Down Main, back to the Down platform, into the down siding and back into the depot. The S stock is also so out of gauge it has to do odd moves at Dorridge.

That all seems to awkward! Then again, for how often it has to happen, not so much I suppose. Alas, this is the issue with railways, and if there's only a few connections between LU and NR, then I suppose it has to be this way. I honestly thought there was a lot more along the rout, but that was more guesswork on my part than anything.
 

MichaelAMW

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We time it as a triple shunt at West Ruislip, Up Loop, Down Main, back to the Down platform, into the down siding and back into the depot. The S stock is also so out of gauge it has to do odd moves at Dorridge.

Why not just reverse once at South Ruislip?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
7X09 either goes in to LUL at West Ruislip or goes along to Amersham via a reversal at Aylesbury, never heard of it going up to Calvert. It is normally top and tailed by Class 20s as apparently propelling isnt allowed on LUL.

You can't get anywhere via Calvert and haven't been able to for some time: the line towards Bletchley has been out of use for years and that towards Oxford for a couple of years while the Chiltern upgrade is going on. I suppose you could now go Bicester South - reverse - Bicester Town - reverse - Calvert - reverse - Neasden...?!
 

RPM

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You can't get anywhere via Calvert and haven't been able to for some time: the line towards Bletchley has been out of use for years and that towards Oxford for a couple of years while the Chiltern upgrade is going on. I suppose you could now go Bicester South - reverse - Bicester Town - reverse - Calvert - reverse - Neasden...?!

Calvert - Bicester is back in use, although I don't think it has any scheduled traffic as yet. Chiltern ran some route refresher workings that way with a bubble car last week.
 

KingDaveRa

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Well once East-West Rail (finally) gets going it should see a lot of traffic. Until then, what sort of thing might go that way?
 

D1009

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The S stock deliveries to LUL must be a real pain to path being timed for max 60mph. Realtime trains shows a typical schedule
Class 7s are normally timed at 45 mph max, and because the stock is slightly out of gauge hence the X headcode, there are lower restrictions applicable in certain places, so yes a real pain to path!
 

RPM

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As I understand it the S8 stock deliveries have to go via Aylesbury to Neasden because the formation is too long for the exchange siding at West Ruislip. The S7 deliveries do fit in the siding so they go that way because it's easier.
 

maniacmartin

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If you look at the road/rail bridge at Old Dalby on Google Streetview you can see LU stock. Good timing by Google!
 
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