Why is the service on the Durham Coast Line so poor?

[glbotu]

Why is the service on the Durham Coast Line so poor?

This has always seemed like somewhat of a mystery to me, given how populous the area is (Newcastle, Sunderland, Hartlepool, Billingham, Stockton, Middlesbrough). I get that the Tyne and Wear Metro imposes somewhat of a constraint from Sunderland to Newcastle by running 5 tph all day, although surely the scope for doing that must have already existed. The line is 2 tracked throughout (except a tiny bit around Hartlepool Station) and certainly has historical significance (ie: it historically had a good service), so why is it currently so poor. It basically gets a Pacer an hour each way (a double pacer or 156 in the peak) + 5 Grand Central trains from Sunderland.

 

[sprinterguy]

I would put it down to the lack of impetus from successive operators to invest in what must be regarded as quite a peripheral route far removed from the centre of the company’s operations. In my opinion this can be traced all the way back to British Rails’ programme of managed decline in the early eighties, which on this route has never been satisfactorily reversed.

The route was resignalled in 2010, though I do not know whether this resulted in a shortening of the typically long signalling sections, which historically have restricted capacity over the route, or just installation of the new LED type signals in the same layout.

This is coupled with the fact that the majority of the route is not represented by any Passenger Transport Authority, so does not have a voice to speak for it overall. In my view the extension of the Metro to Sunderland has done much to harm the Durham Coast line as a whole despite the benefits it has brought to the Sunderland to Newcastle stretch that falls within the Nexus area.

The lack of PTA support also goes some way to explaining the diabolical evening service out of the major towns and cities of the north east region, where the routes extend out of the Nexus area: Not just the likes of Middlesbrough and Hartlepool (where in the latter case the latest evening train in the northbound direction is in fact the open access Grand Central service!), but also from Newcastle out along the Tyne Valley.

 

[thenorthern]

There used to be a half hourly service until a couple of years ago but it was becoming obsolete after the Tyne and Wear Metro was introduced. There were also some Arriva Trains Northern TransPennie trains which extended to Sunderland from Newcastle which were withdrawn when FTPE took over in 2004 for the same reason.

I agree though that the service is rather poor although given the line is quite slow nature of the line and the layout of the railways in Teesside which make through trains via Middlesbrough other than to Saltburn or Nunthorpe difficult I can't see anything changing soon.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There used to be 4.5tph between Sunderland and Newcastle (1tp2h being a TPE running express), but obviously this went when Metro started.

Half of these- 2tph- used to go as far as Hartlepool and one of those went through to Boro. The Hartlepool terminator was in addition to the franchise commitment and ATN binned it because it was losing money.

 

[Mark_re]

The stations on this route are also quite poor and remote from the centres of the places they serve. Also, I suspect the main reason is that the A19 parallels the route and is fast and good quality. Go North East also run a decent bus service on routes X9, X10 and X11 (IIRC), which is very competitive with the slow train service.

Mark

 

[thenorthern]

I would say time is a big factor as well. Its slightly quicker to change at Darlington to get to Middlesbourgh from Newcastle than it is to go direct.

 

[TBY-Paul]

There appears to be a total lack of interest in rail related matter when it comes to the local authorities in the Teesside/Durham Coast area. Over the years lot's of things get mentioned i.e Peterlee/Horden Station, Leamside, Stillington, Tees Metro.etc but nothing ever goes beyond the odd sound bite.

 

[70014IronDuke]

There appears to be a total lack of interest in rail related matter when it comes to the local authorities in the Teesside/Durham Coast area. Over the years lot's of things get mentioned i.e Peterlee/Horden Station, Leamside, Stillington, Tees Metro.etc but nothing ever goes beyond the odd sound bite.

Ah, you beat me to it! I was going to ask - why has no one pushed for a fast Middlesbrough- Newcastle service via Stillington? Surely it would knock what, 20 minutes off trains via Darlington? and even more off the Sunderland route? And if there are pathing difficulties via Durham, then you have the Leamside line just sitting there waiting to be relaid.

then, as you say, there is no station serving Peterlee/Horden - an amazing omission that seems not to bother anyone.

EDIT population nearly 28,000 in 2011 census. OK, the line runs by the side of Peterlee rather than through it, but still, surely a new station would attract enough new traffic to make it viable?

I have to agree with the OP - it's a mystery to me too. The service today, 1 TPH, is surely what BR introduced when DMUs were first introduced in the late 1950s?
Perhaps BR should have proposed closure between Sunderland and Thornaby - it might have whipped up some enthusiasm for rail amongst the local population

 

[jonty14]

Trains to Seaham from Newcastle seem to be well used. More stations between Seaham and Hartlepool would be good.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I would put it down to the lack of impetus from successive operators to invest in what must be regarded as quite a peripheral route far removed from the centre of the company’s operations.
......

Not trying to undermine the points you make - all very reasonable IMO - but compare with Truro to Falmouth? You can certainly compare it for remoteness - yet this branch has a 2 tph service from 06.00 to 19.00, and then hourly until 22.08 !!!!!

 

[47271]

This is less to do with the local service, and not entirely the coastal section's fault, but it wouldn't do any harm to get the linespeed up a bit either.

I use Grand Central quite a bit and, thinking things were a bit slow one day, worked out that the average speed between Northallerton and Sunderland (47 miles) was barely 45mph (1hr 4mins on the train I was on at the time), and that was per the timetable, no late running. No wonder a lot of people choose to go via Newcastle.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not trying to undermine the points you make - all very reasonable IMO - but compare with Truro to Falmouth? You can certainly compare it for remoteness - yet this branch has a 2 tph service from 06.00 to 19.00, and then hourly until 22.08 !!!!!

That's true, and in fact enhances one of my points: The Falmouth branch, in common with most other Devon and Cornish branches, has since 1991 had the Devon and Cornwall Rail Partnership to champion its cause. Not only do they provide a voice for improving the train services but more importantly they are also able to provide some of the financial backing to make these improvements a reality. Durham County Council do not appear to show the same level of enthusiasm for the rail services on their patch as do the local authorities in the South West.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is less to do with the local service, and not entirely the coastal section's fault, but it wouldn't do any harm to get the linespeed up a bit either.

I use Grand Central quite a bit and, thinking things were a bit slow one day, worked out that the average speed between Northallerton and Sunderland (47 miles) was barely 45mph (1hr 4mins on the train I was on at the time), and that was per the timetable, no late running. No wonder a lot of people choose to go via Newcastle.

When trundling down the Durham Coast on Grand Central I too have thought similar: Barring the reverse curves at Hall Dene, the Durham Coast is not a particularly sinuous route, so there must, surely, be potential to raise linespeeds a bit. Granted that there is a heavy coal and biomass traffic from Tyne Dock to accommodate, but even so the line does not seem to even be approaching the realms of intensive use (south of Sunderland).

 

[thenorthern]

There are other factors in the Teesside area which make the service on the line poor such as the line of of Middlesbrough takes a long a winding route to Thornby along the Tees traveling in the opposite direction to where Hartlepool is, the line then seems to take a strange route though Stockton and then onto Billingham meaning a distance of 2.5 miles as the crow files is over 10 miles by train.

Middlesbrough station itself always seems rather congested to me and not designed for terminating trains although many services currently do terminate there.

Finally it is in the interest of most operators with trains in the Teesside area to serve Middlesbrough as it is the most important part of Teesside but doing so means trains either have to terminate there or run onto Nunthorpe or Saltburn as reversing is impractical because of the previous two points.

Trains to Seaham from Newcastle seem to be well used. More stations between Seaham and Hartlepool would be good.

A Peterlee station would be nice, the largest urban area with an open line and no station (I think).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ah, you beat me to it! I was going to ask - why has no one pushed for a fast Middlesbrough- Newcastle service via Stillington? Surely it would knock what, 20 minutes off trains via Darlington? and even more off the Sunderland route? And if there are pathing difficulties via Durham, then you have the Leamside line just sitting there waiting to be relaid.

There used to be 1tp2h that went fast from Newcastle to Boro and Saltburn via Durham and Darlington. It was usually empty and was removed to give the path to XC and TPE for their faster trains. There's no longer a path via Durham.

As for running it via Stillington and Leamside, a) the Leamside line would be slower than the Durham Coast and b) the Leamside line has largely been dug up and wouldn't be worth the cost of reinstatement as it doesn't go anywhere.

I'd agree that a station at Easington Colliery and/or Horden would be useful on the Durham Coast though.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Ah, you beat me to it! I was going to ask - why has no one pushed for a fast Middlesbrough- Newcastle service via Stillington? Surely it would knock what, 20 minutes off trains via Darlington? and even more off the Sunderland route? And if there are pathing difficulties via Durham, then you have the Leamside line just sitting there waiting to be relaid.

Nexus (I think) did a report into this as part of Tyne-Tees express route, but I think it met with total apathy from the local authorities on Teesside, and ended up collecting dust on someone's shelf.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TyneTees_Express

There's so much that could be done to improve rail transport in this part of the world, but there isn't the will, the local authorities are to happy to sit back and do nothing so they can blame others for the regions woes.

Just prior to the election I joined a FB page(for local politics) which was full of local Labour Councillors and Party activists blaming one the Local MP's and his party for the areas problems. So I asked the simple question "What did the local Councils ask for in the recent Northern Rail/TPE ITT consultation Document". Apparently they asked for "Better transport links", which I took to be a generic response meaning "we don't know, but we'd better write something down".

 

[47271]

I don't know much about the politics of the NE, but viewed from up here in Scotland with stations and lines opening up all over the place, it does seem to be very frustrating when you look at really quite large places like Peterlee missing out over such a long period.

 

[glbotu]

The lack of PTA support also goes some way to explaining the diabolical evening service out of the major towns and cities of the north east region, where the routes extend out of the Nexus area: Not just the likes of Middlesbrough and Hartlepool (where in the latter case the latest evening train in the northbound direction is in fact the open access Grand Central service!), but also from Newcastle out along the Tyne Valley.

This has partly to do with not wanting to pay for a police presence on the trains. There were a huge number of assaults/violence on the late night services out of Newcastle on Friday and Saturday nights. The solution to the operator at the time (I think ATN) was pay for police or stop running the trains.

The apathy as to this service is also rather bizarre. The fact that no-one is really considering any improvements to either stations or service just seems odd, given it's one that connects cities of 800,000, 300,000, 150,000 and 90,000 people.

Not that improvements in the North East don't happen, Tyneside has done very well for itself with the Metro and is constantly putting forward line extensions (Washington and Ashington/Blyth the ones that come up). Why are these at the forefront compared with the Durham Coast Line.

Other than re-connecting Washington, I can't see much passenger scope for Leamside, but it could be a useful means of getting freight off the ECML, opening up extra paths? ECML to Middlesbrough via Stillington seems pretty sensible.

 

[Stats]

Just prior to the election I joined a FB page(for local politics) which was full of local Labour Councillors and Party activists blaming one the Local MP's and his party for the areas problems. So I asked the simple question "What did the local Councils ask for in the recent Northern Rail/TPE ITT consultation Document". Apparently they asked for "Better transport links", which I took to be a generic response meaning "we don't know, but we'd better write something down".

Depends who you're refering to as local councils, but the North East CA (Transport NE) response is contained in their meeting agenda for last July.
http://www.northeastca.gov.uk/sites...- Transport North East Committee - Agenda.pdf

 

[TBY-Paul]

Depends who you're refering to as local councils, but the North East CA (Transport NE) response is contained in their meeting agenda for last July.
http://www.northeastca.gov.uk/sites...- Transport North East Committee - Agenda.pdf

Thanks for that Link. But it just goes to show we have different definitions as to what constitutes " the North East". The local councils I was referring to were the "Other" part of the North-east, the bit made up of north, north Yorkshire & South, South Durham.

The area is made up of Darlington, Stockton, Middlesbrough, Hartlepool and Redcar& Cleveland councils and that is one of the problems, the area doesn't have an identifiable identity, it's just 5 separate authorities who fail to work together to achieve things.

There is the possibility of the area becoming one unified authority as part of the "Northern Powerhouse" with an elected mayor which might help things. but the reality is, with not being part of the North East combined authority, this area (Tees Valley is the favoured name I believe) will more than likely to miss out on any significant investment.

 

[Stats]

Thanks for that Link. But it just goes to show we have different definitions as to what constitutes " the North East". The local councils I was referring to were the "Other" part of the North-east, the bit made up of north, north Yorkshire & South, South Durham.

The area is made up of Darlington, Stockton, Middlesbrough, Hartlepool and Redcar& Cleveland councils and that is one of the problems, the area doesn't have an identifiable identity, it's just 5 separate authorities who fail to work together to achieve things.

No, we have the same definition. I was concious you might be refering to the southern part of the region, hence my opening depends on which councils statement.

 

[FQTV]

Although I have lurked on the platform edge for some time, I think that this may be my maiden call.

In which case, I'd like to thank all those who have, albeit unwittingly, imparted such knowledge, humour and quite inexplicable lunacy to those threads that I've trespassed upon thus far.

This is the first time that I've felt able to cross the tracks without the signaller's permission, and I sincerely hope that it will not incur the wrath of that ghastly guard who prowls VTEC with his semi-automatic rapid-fire penalty fare pad.

You'll know who s/he is.

So, this is about Durham, and not because it's The Birthplace of The Railways (which it's not) - and not just because it's home (which it is) - but more because it really is a blueprint of disjointed at best, and ignored at worst, mass transport planning.

The operational issues are, if I may be so bold, largely irrelevant; they're the standard responses of those bound by comfort or inertia. A new station for Peterlee would attract development around it, not sit remote from the assumption that the existing town will remain in aspic.

The chronic connectivity within Teesside is obvious; the reasons for it are clearly the abandoned love child of large shipping heading as far as Stockton, and opposing-bank boroughs' blindness to the fact that the ships sank years ago and a new river rail crossing could practically skim the water and cause no interference.

The Leamside line's BCR is always ropey when taken in isolation. It simply must be considered with a view to network resilience though, especially with the ECML pinch-points it parallels.

But what also of Durham to Sunderland? The road traffic flows from the West and across the Wear are already over-capacity at peak, with the Western approaches to Sunderland also. They're two cities whose link was severed at the all-too-common-A1-altar, yet which have significant inter-urban flows and also long distance catchments. A London-bound train from Sunderland has no need to trundle to Stockton; it should surely join the ECML via an A1 parkway at J62 Durham and, when the main line is in trouble, the Leamside rescues. Likewise, Stockton from Durham and Newcastle should so clearly benefit from a Stillington link.

The whole region (of which this is a tiny part) needs a plan, and a focused group to lobby for it. At the moment, it seems to be down to whatever titbits come out of an ITT, with (at least it seems to me) the vast majority of current politicians and administrators struggling to see beyond their own constituency boundary.

The potential, I am quite sure, is huge and transformational.

I shall now retire to my refuge in the bus shelter at Peterlee.

 

[47271]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119565

For anyone interested, similar NE strategy themes coming out in the rather more combative thread above. Welcome FQTV by the way, it seems we're more polite when we discuss Co Durham!

It misleadingly has a title referring to Scotrail services to Berwick but is a lot more concerned with services in the Morpeth area.

 

[najaB]

It misleadingly has a title referring to Scotrail services to Berwick but is a lot more concerned with services in the Morpeth area.

This is RailUK - it drifted...

 

[Bevan Price]

Coal mining was both a blessing and a curse to the railways of Co. Durham. It provided lots of freight traffic, but mining subsidence affected many of the railways, requiring lots of low speed restrictions, and making some journeys painfully slow. Although the coal mining has now gone, not much seems to have been done to improve the railway and allow much higher speeds.

Since the 1975 timetable, the fastest journey from Newcastle to Middlesbrough has improved from 79 to 78 minutes. The once basically hourly service between Hartlepool, Stockton & Darlington has disappeared.

Stockton to Darlington has no direct service, and the journey time has "improved" from 23 minutes (direct) to about 54 minutes (including 21 minutes wait at Thornaby) - hardly surprising if patronage is lower than might be expected.

 

[Darandio]

Stockton to Darlington has no direct service

It does on a Sunday.

 

[Starmill]

It does on a Sunday.

Does that really help? Yes you've read the PSUL very clever. Doesn't change anything though does it?

 

[Darandio]

Does that really help? Yes you've read the PSUL very clever. Doesn't change anything though does it?

No need to be personal. Is there a direct service, or isn't there?

 

[TBY-Paul]

No need to be personal. Is there a direct service, or isn't there?

Maybe he should have said "useful" direct service. One return service on Sunday Morning and One on a Sunday Afternoon can hardly be called useful.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe he should have said "useful" direct service. One return service on Sunday Morning and One on a Sunday Afternoon can hardly be called useful.

As one not from the area in question, what is the bus service provision of the area in question like ?

 

[Paul Duck]

Hartlepool does seem to have a really bad service now! Passenger figures for Hartlepool are over 600,000 now with no extra trains added in the past couple of years, meaning that most morning services to Newcastle on Weekdays and Weekends (dont even mention Sunderland & Newcastle match day overcrowding) are full an standing.
Hopefully with the beginning of the new franchise the extra rolling stock will appear in a few years and 4 coach trains will appear on the Durham Coast Line. Also hopefully the new franchisee will introduce new services (2 hourly Hartlepool to York a firm favorite on the wish list in the office).