Why so long to develop East - West Rail?

[nuneatonmark]

This is not a thread to duplicate threads for either East-West rail or re the Chiltern upgrade of Oxford to Bicester but specifically about why is it taking so long for the East-West project between Bicester and Bletchley to really get going when it's only taken a year or two to completely re-build the line between Oxford and Bicester including new stations? Ok, so it's a longer line with a large part that was overgrown but it surely cannot be much more difficult than completely re-building the line to Oxford from Bicester?

 

[The Planner]

Do you actually know when things got started for the phase 1 of E-W as part of the original plans for just Chiltern? Pre 2010...

 

[nuneatonmark]

Yes, I am aware of all the pre-requisite work that is needed but that doesn't account for why the work on the central section seems to be progressing at a snail's pace?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

but specifically about why is it taking so long for the East-West project between Bicester and Bletchley to really get going

The local paper for South Bucks (Bucks Free Press) had an advert for Network Rail consultations about the reopening and upgrade. What surprised me a bit was that it stretched as far south as Princes Risborough with the implication of an upgrade to the line to Aylesbury. Is Milton Keynes to Princes Risborough via Aylesbury part of the planning?

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/east-west-rail/

 

[ironstone11]

The local paper for South Bucks (Bucks Free Press) had an advert for Network Rail consultations about the reopening and upgrade. What surprised me a bit was that it stretched as far south as Princes Risborough with the implication of an upgrade to the line to Aylesbury. Is Milton Keynes to Princes Risborough via Aylesbury part of the planning?

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/east-west-rail/

Yes, indeed it is. Please see the EastWest Rail Website

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, I am aware of all the pre-requisite work that is needed but that doesn't account for why the work on the central section seems to be progressing at a snail's pace?

i don't think you are but then i am not sure anyone does! The works required to obtain the required Transport & Works act powers are onerous.

 

[ironstone11]

Yes, I am aware of all the pre-requisite work that is needed but that doesn't account for why the work on the central section seems to be progressing at a snail's pace?

As The Planner points out, the Oxford Bicester section was planned pre 2010.

To bring the Bicester - Bletchley back into use as a modern 100mph railway requires a huge amount of planning. Every structure including bridges and culverts, cuttings, embankments, drainage etc. have to be assessed prior to drawing up a costed work plan.

NR has awarded a contract for the pre-planning excercise which includes some clearance, mainly to uncover what's there.

This route never was a high speed railway and for the last 50 or more years has seen virtually no traffic and consequently no maintenance.

 

[swt_passenger]

This is not a thread to duplicate threads for either East-West rail or re the Chiltern upgrade of Oxford to Bicester but specifically about why is it taking so long for the East-West project between Bicester and Bletchley to really get going when it's only taken a year or two to completely re-build the line between Oxford and Bicester including new stations? Ok, so it's a longer line with a large part that was overgrown but it surely cannot be much more difficult than completely re-building the line to Oxford from Bicester?

Why can't you just accept that it isn't planned to be done yet?

 

[jimm]

This is not a thread to duplicate threads for either East-West rail or re the Chiltern upgrade of Oxford to Bicester but specifically about why is it taking so long for the East-West project between Bicester and Bletchley to really get going when it's only taken a year or two to completely re-build the line between Oxford and Bicester including new stations? Ok, so it's a longer line with a large part that was overgrown but it surely cannot be much more difficult than completely re-building the line to Oxford from Bicester?

It's bit more complicated than tackling a bit of undergrowth. The Grendon-Bletchley section has been disused since 1993 or something like that, with about the only maintenance being done on road bridges to make sure they are safe for road traffic. It's a whole different kettle of fish from taking what was still a working, fully-maintained railway and formation and improving it.

 

[nuneatonmark]

It's bit more completed than tackling a bit of undergrowth. The Grendon-Bletchley section has been disused since 1993 or something like that, with about the only maintenance being done on road bridges to make sure they are safe for road traffic. It's a whole different kettle of fish from taking what was still a working, fully-maintained railway and formation and improving it.

The Waverley Line was unused for 50 years yet since getting Royal Assent in 2006 has taken only 9 years to build.

 

[Trainfan344]

The Waverley Line was unused for 50 years yet since getting Royal Assent in 2006 has taken only 9 years to build.

But is the Borders Railway a 100mph double track mainline?

 

[The Planner]

With an intersection with HS2 that came along later?

 

[DarloRich]

But is the Borders Railway a 100mph double track mainline?

An electrified double track 100mph main line to be precise

It also assumes that both money and human resources are readily available to deliver instantly AND that people don't constantly change their mind about routing and specifications

 

[work-traveller]

The Waverley Line was unused for 50 years yet since getting Royal Assent in 2006 has taken only 9 years to build.

Noting that EWR (Bicester-Bletchley-Milton Keynes-Bedford-Aylesbury-Princes Risborough) won't have a TWA Order until the end of next year, it's actually doing pretty well I'd suggest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is not a thread to duplicate threads for either East-West rail or re the Chiltern upgrade of Oxford to Bicester but specifically about why is it taking so long for the East-West project between Bicester and Bletchley to really get going when it's only taken a year or two to completely re-build the line between Oxford and Bicester including new stations? Ok, so it's a longer line with a large part that was overgrown but it surely cannot be much more difficult than completely re-building the line to Oxford from Bicester?

Oxford-Bicester = 14 miles of twin track route, without electrification at the point of commissioning

Bicester-Bedford/MK/Princces Risborough = 58 miles of (mostly) twin track route with 23 miles electrified

Different scale of works.

 

[philjo]

I received an email today from EWR giving details of the public consultation on the western section which closes on 16 October.

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/public-consultation/

Network Rail is consulting the public on proposals for the East West Rail Western Section between Bicester and Bedford, Milton Keynes and Princes Risborough. The consultation runs from 7th September to 16th October 2015.

Statutory stakeholders including local authorities and landowners affected by the scheme have been sent consultation packs.

There is a series of public consultation events, open to all, and people are invited to view, discuss and give feedback on initial plans. The first round of consultation closes on 16th October. Feedback will then be reviewed. There will be a second round of consultation in early 2016. Following this, the aim is to submit plans to the Secretary of State in summer 2016 to obtain the required permission for the scheme.

View or download the flyer with details here

Consultation Events

Monday 21 September 12pm-8pm
Elim Church, 9 Bell St, Princes Risborough, Buckinghamshire, HP27 0DE

Wednesday 23 September 12pm-8pm
Rivets Sports and Social Club, Whitehead Way, Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, HP21 8AD

Thursday 24 September 12pm-8pm
John Paul II Centre, Henley House, The Causeway, Bicester, Oxfordshire, OX26 6AW

Friday 25 September 12pm-8pm
Sycamore Hall, Drayton Road, Bletchley, Milton Keynes, MK2 3RR

Monday 28 September 4pm-8pm
and Tuesday 29 September 12pm-8pm
Public Hall, Elmfields Gate, Winslow, Buckinghamshire, MK18 3JG

Wednesday 30 September 12pm-8pm
and Thursday 1 October 12pm-8pm
Forest Centre, Station Road, Marston Moretaine, Bedfordshire, MK43 0PR

 

[jimm]

The Waverley Line was unused for 50 years yet since getting Royal Assent in 2006 has taken only 9 years to build.

Confirmation of backing for the reinstatement from Bicester to Bletchley was given in the Chancellor's autumn Statement at the end of November 2011. East-West trains are due to be running by 2019, which is eight years from that announcement.

 

[Class 170101]

Is it still secure given comments made in this article?
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...will-be-immune-from-hendy-review-dft-confirms

14.09.15
No CP5 project will be immune from Hendy review, DfT confirms

The Department for Transport has published the terms of reference for the review being carried out by Network Rail’s new chair, Sir Peter Hendy, into the deliverability of its CP5 enhancements programme.

It has confirmed that “all CP5 enhancements projects and programmes are in scope for this review, including those included in the Investment Framework and ringfenced funds”.

Hendy is being asked to “re-plan” the delivery of the £12bn enhancements programme for the entire control period to make sure the overall budget is not bust, that the right projects are prioritised, and that work “that cannot be afforded, or is not deliverable” is reprofiled for a subsequent control period instead.

His review does not have a publication date, though the government says it will be done “this autumn”. RTM has asked the DfT for an update on that.

The confirmation that ‘everything is on the table’, even confirmed projects, has worried the Network Rail supply chain and campaigners who had hoped individual upgrades were safe.

We reported earlier this month that key suppliers including Atkins and Siemens Rail Automation were calling for an end to the uncertainty.

Philip Hoare, head of the Transportation division at Atkins, covering rail and highways, told RTM there should be an “industry call-to-arms” to end the mixed messages. “There’s no doubt – as an industry and as an organisation – that we’re worried about the impact of the various reviews into Network Rail,” he said.

Paul Copeland, managing director at Siemens Rail Automation UK, said that if the railway signalling sector contracts as a result of changes at Network Rail “we would lose skilled and experienced staff to other industry sectors…This would have a long-term effect on the industry and its ability to deliver future projects such as HS2 and Crossrail 2.”

We then surveyed other suppliers via Twitter to ask whether they shared the concerns about what the Hendy review might say, and many said they did:

Others said the review was necessary:

Passenger groups in particular areas have expressed worries that their local enhancements projects might be curtailed or scrapped, such as GOBLIN (Gospel Oak to Barking Line) electrification, and Ore to Ashford (Marshlink Line) electrification:

Transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin MP wrote to Commons transport select committee chair Louise Ellman MP announcing the publication of the Hendy review terms of reference, having made a promise to do so at his appearance before the committee in July.

David Sidebottom, passenger director at the independent watchdog Transport Focus, said: "Long-term plans and investment are important and welcome, and passengers have put up with much inconvenience in the expectation of a better, more reliable, and more comfortable rail service.

"The review will bring some welcome clarity for them on what they can expect to experience over the next few years. What passengers will want now is a clear plan of action, setting out exactly when Network Rail will start to deliver some of the promised improvements."

The terms of reference for the other reviews into Network Rail, the Shaw Report and the Bowe Review, have already been published.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is it still secure given comments made in this article?
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...will-be-immune-from-hendy-review-dft-confirms

I would say secure but with an uncertain timescale, and possibly scope.
It ought to have an easier run than some other projects (but they will have their champions too).

 

[route:oxford]

Is it still secure given comments made in this article?
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...will-be-immune-from-hendy-review-dft-confirms

Looks like it:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34245542

 

[cle]

Will there ever be more planned for Princes Risborough/Aylesbury to MK?

Thinking here about increased frequency, new/reopened stations, service expansion via Amersham...?

It's quite a long extension for 1tph, diesel and probably never more than 4-5 cars. Surely it could be of more use in the future once the new links all pick up.

 

[67018]

Will there ever be more planned for Princes Risborough/Aylesbury to MK?

Thinking here about increased frequency, new/reopened stations, service expansion via Amersham...?

It's quite a long extension for 1tph, diesel and probably never more than 4-5 cars. Surely it could be of more use in the future once the new links all pick up.

Can't imagine anyone would bother with Amersham. Quite apart from the issues of fitting in with the Met line, the real driver for this part of the line is the High Wycombe-Aylesbury-MK axis.

New/reopened stations are also unlikely given the rural nature of a lot of the route, unless there is significant housing development. (Maybe that's worth proposing to divert the local NIMBYs away from moaning about HS2...)

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like it:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34245542

Does that apparently include re-introducing into service the APT on East West?

(Note the picture in the article!)

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I would say secure but with an uncertain timescale, and possibly scope.
It ought to have an easier run than some other projects (but they will have their champions too).

The project itself is very unlikely to be cancelled, but the timescales are likely to slip as assets - equipment and staff - remain in use on other projects beyond their previously expected completion dates.

 

[MK Tom]

This project feels overdue as OBRAC have been campaigning for it since 1990, when it was still possible to drive a train from Oxford to Bletchley. There's been a lot of backwards movement since then which has only started going forwards since late 2011 really, and has done so at quite an impressive rate since then.

 

[jimm]

This project feels overdue as OBRAC have been campaigning for it since 1990, when it was still possible to drive a train from Oxford to Bletchley. There's been a lot of backwards movement since then which has only started going forwards since late 2011 really, and has done so at quite an impressive rate since then.

Not really a fair characterisation of the situation. The resumption of Oxford-Bicester passenger trains in 1987 was seen as a precursor to reopening all the way to Bletchley. The only backwards movement was the mothballing of the line in 1993.

The idea was stuck in a siding for quite some time but it never went away and there was plenty of forward momentum before 2011 from the East West Consortium, which has been round for 20 years, and commissioned a Grip 4 report in 2008-9 (and other project development work before that) that eventually led to the Government picking up on the scheme as a strategic priority after previously insisting it should be developed by the local authorities.

 

[DarloRich]

The project itself is very unlikely to be cancelled, but the timescales are likely to slip as assets - equipment and staff - remain in use on other projects beyond their previously expected completion dates.

agreed this is most likely but it is entirely possible this and/or other projects will be cancelled as a result of the various spending/VFM reviews

 

[The Planner]

It will get built, but it will slip as part of spending reviews like a lot of other schemes, there is too much third party cash involved for it to be canned I suspect.

As for Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, it depends if an increased timetable ever happens, as that will require something to be done along there. As for new stations, there is apparently passive provision for Steeple Claydon if my sources are correct.

 

[ironstone11]

Will there ever be more planned for Princes Risborough/Aylesbury to MK?

The aspiration here is for 2tph, but for that to happen, a passing loop would need to be provided near Little Kimble.

Thinking here about increased frequency, new/reopened stations, service expansion via Amersham...?

Amersham is totally out of the picture as it is near capacity with LU traffic.

 

[swt_passenger]

The aspiration here is for 2tph, but for that to happen, a passing loop would need to be provided near Little Kimble.
Amersham is totally out of the picture as it is near capacity with LU traffic.

Perhaps they could extend any existing 'via Amersham' service, which is how they are finding the other one via Wycombe?

 

[jimm]

Perhaps they could extend any existing 'via Amersham' service, which is how they are finding the other one via Wycombe?

The fundamental point is that I don't think they see any prospect of there being enough traffic north from Amersham to justify a through service to MK in the first place, with what is likely to be on offer probably being perfectly well served by a simple change at Aylesbury. High Wycombe is a heck of a lot bigger, so a far more attractive place to serve.