Why SWR`s the worst of all?

[Bald Rick]

Not so. They run empty trains past packed platforms, benefitting the few passangers on the train to the detriment of those it runs past.

But yesterday, therewere a very significant number of people trying to get to/from Twickenham. Compared to the number of people at, say, Norbiton?

 

[Haywain]

What would inconvenience fewer passengers would be to terminate short, (eg at Fulwell) so that it can still serve the busiest stations (as I have previously observed, Norbiton alone has as many passengers as the total of the five stations on the Shepperton branch,

But Norbiton and Fulwell also have more services than the stations on the branch, so the inconvenience at the busier stations is reduced. If your idea was followed the branch would have significant gaps in its service.

 

[Horizon22]

But Norbiton and Fulwell also have more services than the stations on the branch, so the inconvenience at the busier stations is reduced. If your idea was followed the branch would have significant gaps in its service.

Also bear in mind the infrastructure to terminate the trains; there is no bay between Fulwell and Shepperton, thus blocking one of the lines whilst the train terminates and turns around for booked departure and causing more delays.

 

[SWT_USER]

There are far more realistic car alternatives in Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle etc, on the XC routes - as well as air options on longer XC routes.
When SWR goes down, or makes drastic reductions to timetable, what are London commuters to do? (Answer - wfh, again). Before this year, my record longest commute home to zone 6 was 2h30, a suicide at Wimbledon in October 2005. That record has been broken three times in 2024 (January, May and August), and I have only been going in three times a week and have just had two months off for a hip replacement. They couldn't run a whelk stall.

I saw on BBC last week that TPE/Northern (can't recall which) is now reinstating services it removed a year ago. SWR land has had reduced services for almost five years now. It's incredible to think SWT ran it so relatively smoothly and made a shed load of cash for the DfT - something like £250m a year on £1bn turnover.

Exactly - conveniently hiding behind falling passenger numbers (are they really lower than when the 2004 timetable was introduced?) but ignoring that SWR couldn't reintroduce the missing services even if they wanted to because they've left themselves so short of stock.

It's no wonder passengers aren't rushing back with the awful service provided. The Hounslow loop has had a 60% capacity cut in some hours (40 carriages down to 16).

 

[43096]

But yesterday, therewere a very significant number of people trying to get to/from Twickenham. Compared to the number of people at, say, Norbiton?

The service was also up the spout on the Reading line further out - which is one of the key services serving Twickenham - so they'd be looking how to serve the egg chasing event given that issue.

 

[norbitonflyer]

But yesterday, therewere a very significant number of people trying to get to/from Twickenham. Compared to the number of people at, say, Norbiton?

Indeed there were, but not to Waterloo via the scenic route. A s the earlier correspndent noted, it ran almsot empty non-stop from Twickenham to Waterloo via the Loop.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

Also bear in mind the infrastructure to terminate the trains; there is no bay between Fulwell and Shepperton, thus blocking one of the lines whilst the train terminates and turns around for booked departure and causing more delays.

Trains can rerverse at Fulwell, and with onlyb a 30 minute frequency they are not going to get in anything else's way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

But Norbiton and Fulwell also have more services than the stations on the branch, so the inconvenience at the busier stations is reduced. If your idea was followed the branch would have significant gaps in its service.

Fulwell is on the branch! Anyway, I thought the idea was supposed to be "for the greater good". Is a 30 minute delay for 100 passengers better than a 15 minute delay for 500? (Even assuming the 500 are all able to squeeze on to the next train)

Thgere is no consistency - i have had a connection fail to be honoured because the 60 minute delay it would cause to the 60-odd people trying to make the connection was seen as less important than the three minute delay that would have been caused to the 600 people alraedy on the train had it been held.

Anyway, if SWR were running trains of the length and frequency they committed to in the franchise, dwell times would be reduced and they might run to time so the problem would go away.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Anyway, if SWR were running trains of the length and frequency they committed to in the franchise, dwell times would be reduced and they might run to time so the problem would go away.

That franchise is long long since dead. They are running the train service asked for by the dft in the current management contract which is very different mostly for funding reasons.

 

[JonathanH]

They run empty trains past packed platforms, benefitting the few passangers on the train to the detriment of those it runs past.

It doesn't just happen in South Western Railway areas, and usually it will be because another train is nearby. I was on a CrossCity train in Birmingham this evening that turfed off all the passengers at New Street to run fast to Longbridge because of an accumulation of delays. I was on a GWR train this morning that picked up additional stops because the one before had been delayed and sent fast to its destination.

They do indeed get a penalty for cancelled stops, - but the reason they do it is to game the system - by getting it to the end of the line in time to start the return trip on schedule.

It is to try and recover the service. Eventually a train has to either be cancelled, turned short or miss some stations. It happens everywhere if intervention is deemed to be needed.

 

[Haywain]

Fulwell is on the branch!

Sorry, my mistake.

Anyway, I thought the idea was supposed to be "for the greater good".

It's about getting the service to as many people as possible. You clearly think letting some people have an hour's gap in their service is fine as long as you don’t have a 30 minute gap.

 

[Clarence Yard]

That franchise is long long since dead. They are running the train service asked for by the dft in the current management contract which is very different mostly for funding reasons.

Exactly this. The timetable is determined by the DfT. The stock for SWR is determined by the DfT. The number of crew employed and their training is determined by the DfT. SWR operates to a cost budget determined by the DfT.

The franchise and all the promises included in it effectively died in 2020.

 

[infobleep]

The 458s were changed from 3+2 to 2+2 seating when they were changed from 4 coach sets to 5 coach sets.

I made a typo and meant 450 rolling stock. Now amended.

 

[Pompey00]

Southern is worse

 

[infobleep]

It doesn't just happen in South Western Railway areas, and usually it will be because another train is nearby. I was on a CrossCity train in Birmingham this evening that turfed off all the passengers at New Street to run fast to Longbridge because of an accumulation of delays. I was on a GWR train this morning that picked up additional stops because the one before had been delayed and sent fast to its destination.

On Saturday the fast GWR services were picking up stops from the cancelled services and being allowed to run late into Gatwick Aiport, which made a change. They then departed late from Gatwick Airport and picked up missing stops leading to even more delays.

This was due to staff shortages.

On Sunday though, it seems aa if they weren't doing that. The 16:57 and 18:57 services which stop at Chilworth and Gomshall were cancelled so if anyone was leaving from those stations a very long wait. I once tried to get help via the help point at Chilworth. Wasn't helpful.

Exactly this. The timetable is determined by the DfT. The stock for SWR is determined by the DfT. The number of crew employed and their training is determined by the DfT. SWR operates to a cost budget determined by the DfT.

The franchise and all the promises included in it effectively died in 2020.

I can't remember when SWR took on the management contract but if it was during COVID pandemic period, if the DfT were specifying the training, how come some TOCs had training during that period and others didn't?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Entirely down to the prevailing Union Agreements and staff reluctance or otherwise to have a second person in the cab. The staff appetite for training varied between TOCs (and some depots within TOCs).

Then the DfT also got involved on a TOC by TOC basis to save costs, through cutting back on individual items such as training. It wasn’t the same people at the DfT dealing with every TOC either.

 

[wastedlife]

Southern is worse

In 2016/17/start of 2018, yes. The utter chaos you saw on a daily basis at LBG was a sight to behold. Now, I know whose network I would rather live on.

The solution, as far as I can see, will only be concerted political pressure from an alliance of MPs across the SWR network to direct the DfT to direct the reinstatement of an acceptable timetable.

 

[swt_passenger]

Think if too many trains arrive late (by 5 minutes?) then SWR would get a penalty, but the rules allow them to run fast to make up time and avoid penalties. The rules do not actually seem to help passengers.
Happened in 2012 when SWT had to cut monthly and annual season ticket prices by five per cent because of the large number of trains which have run late or been cancelled.

SWT forced to cut ticket prices

Season ticket prices are being slashed to their lowest for six years to compensate thousands of commuters for appalling train services.

www.standard.co.uk

That was in 2012 under the passenger’s charter compensation system, it was pretty normal practice back then, AFAIK it’s not at all relevant to today.

 

[minimann]

It seems Hounslow Councillors have had enough, it looks like their is a debate at Full Council tonight calling for restoration (and enhancement) of services to 4TPH and bringing services in to London Overground!

 

[SWT_USER]

It seems Hounslow Councillors have had enough, it looks like their is a debate at Full Council tonight calling for restoration (and enhancement) of services to 4TPH and bringing services in to London Overground!

Hounslow loop is all labour MP's I think, so more chance than there was under the previous govt. Still can't see anything happening until at more 701's are in service - SWR simply don't have the staff or the stock.

 

[43096]

Hounslow loop is all labour MP's I think, so more chance than there was under the previous govt. Still can't see anything happening until at more 701's are in service - SWR simply don't have the staff or the stock.

Actually they do have the stock. They’ve spent the last five years doing who-knows-what rather than prepare for and introduce said stock.

 

[godfreycomplex]

It seems Hounslow Councillors have had enough, it looks like there is a debate at Full Council tonight calling for restoration (and enhancement) of services to 4TPH and bringing services in to London Overground!

They’ve taken their time!

 

[Transilien]

It seems Hounslow Councillors have had enough, it looks like their is a debate at Full Council tonight calling for restoration (and enhancement) of services to 4TPH and bringing services in to London Overground!

It only makes sense that all the SWR metro services should be brought under London Overground.

 

[Olpy]

Sorry if I`d offend anyone my question is what`s wrong with the SWR?!
Why are they EVERY DAY (constantly) suffering of the disruption (any failures)?
Why we suffer of short-formed 4 car 455s instead of 8?
Why they don`t to introduce the 701s normally?
Why the others TOCs can inroduce the new rolling stock and SWR can`t?

Hey there,

I know someone who works/used to work with Siemens.

Basically, SWR ordered the Class 701's components from different companies. For example, the PIDs (Passenger Information Displays) were hard to connect to the train meaning they are delayed because of this. Such a little thing, but affects a whole TOC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2024 ==

It seems Hounslow Councillors have had enough, it looks like their is a debate at Full Council tonight calling for restoration (and enhancement) of services to 4TPH and bringing services in to London Overground!

Hope so too, Hounslow Loop is questionable in terms of train service per hr....

 

[Andy1673]

I know someone who works/used to work with Siemens.

Basically, SWR ordered the Class 701's components from different companies. For example, the PIDs (Passenger Information Displays) were hard to connect to the train meaning they are delayed because of this. Such a little thing, but affects a whole TOC.

Oh no! Such a poor excuse! If it's true that`a a total lack of competency. Such a shame

 

[coppercapped]

Hey there,

I know someone who works/used to work with Siemens.

Basically, SWR ordered the Class 701's components from different companies. For example, the PIDs (Passenger Information Displays) were hard to connect to the train meaning they are delayed because of this. Such a little thing, but affects a whole TOC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2024 ==


Hope so too, Hounslow Loop is questionable in terms of train service per hr....

I don't understand this at all. Siemens has little or nothing to do with the Class 701 build.

The order for the trains was placed with Bombardier which later sold its business to Alstom. This later company is now responsible for the build.

The manufacturer is responsible for the design and integration of all the components and systems which go into its products. The customer may express a wish for some particular component or system to be used but this makes the management of the programme very difficult and will be reflected in the price charged.

Are you certain that your source understands what is happening?

 

[43096]

Hey there,

I know someone who works/used to work with Siemens.

Basically, SWR ordered the Class 701's components from different companies. For example, the PIDs (Passenger Information Displays) were hard to connect to the train meaning they are delayed because of this. Such a little thing, but affects a whole TOC.

Have to say that that does not stack up at all. Not sure why someone who works for Siemens would have any knowledge on this. Second SWR ordered the trains from Bombardier against a specification - I would be utterly astonished if SWR ordered components directly for the trains.

So I’ll call this as a load of twaddle.

 

[Andy1673]

I don't understand this at all. Siemens has little or nothing to do with the Class 701 build.

The order for the trains was placed with Bombardier which later sold its business to Alstom. This later company is now responsible for the build.

The manufacturer is responsible for the design and integration of all the components and systems which go into its products. The customer may express a wish for some particular component or system to be used but this makes the management of the programme very difficult and will be reflected in the price charged.

Are you certain that your source understands what is happening?

I wanted to say the same, but then decided not to do this )))) PIDs.... oh my God

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It only makes sense that all the SWR metro services should be brought under London Overground.

The goal has to be LO running all the metro services round London but TfL also need to cut their cloth to suit to make it financially viable to move it to them.

 

[minimann]

I wonder if they'll look to use the Bill commitments made recently on devolution. SW services have never been talked about by TfL historically possibly due to the even greater integration of fleets across the network than we see on Southern

 

[Bald Rick]

No chance of SWR inners going to TfL. There might have been if Crossrail 2 was happening, but it’s not now. Besides, can you imagine the scenes if the soon to be publicly owned SWR operation was sent over to RfL and put out to tender…

 

[Deepgreen]

Users of any rail service will generally think their service is worse than all the others.

Far too much of a generalisation, I think. For example, I imagine any reasonably informed (i.e. from national news, etc.) user of Chiltern will not see Northern as better! There must be many other examples. SWR, though, have a poor record and they are one of my least favourites because of the combination of very poor passenger information provision and the laughable introduction of new stock, along with many other things.