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Why the bus industry is struggling to recruit drivers

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M@verick

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In the meantime, the rail industry is trying to move away from voluntary Sunday working because it doesn't give a reliable service........
Those with long memories will remember how the mighty Midland Red decided to make all weekend work as voluntary days - drivers would be allocated a shift which they could chuck back in if they didn't want to work.

You can imagine just how well that idea went for the company, and how few weekend buses it ran.
 
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RT4038

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Those with long memories will remember how the mighty Midland Red decided to make all weekend work as voluntary days - drivers would be allocated a shift which they could chuck back in if they didn't want to work.

You can imagine just how well that idea went for the company, and how few weekend buses it ran.
My memory is as long as yours! I believe the Scottish Bus Group had a similar (disastrous) arrangement.
 

richw

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I personally think Driver CPC in its current form is a waste of time. How can a qualification be compulsory when there is no syllabus or requirement for any specific knowledge whatsoever?
A friend of mine (psv driver) did a hazardous goods module as his card was due to expire and it was the only module available locally to him in time!

Of the modules I’ve done the only one I find useful on my day to day work was Tachograph/ driver hours.
 

RT4038

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A friend of mine (psv driver) did a hazardous goods module as his card was due to expire and it was the only module available locally to him in time!

Of the modules I’ve done the only one I find useful on my day to day work was Tachograph/ driver hours.
I did one on how to load, secure, rope & sheet a lorry. Most interesting one so far, as it was a subject I knew nothing about, so could actually learn something.
 

markymark2000

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In the meantime, the rail industry is trying to move away from voluntary Sunday working because it doesn't give a reliable service........
It depends how small the depots are and how many vehicles need to be out on the road.

I personally think Driver CPC in its current form is a waste of time. How can a qualification be compulsory when there is no syllabus or requirement for any specific knowledge whatsoever? It's beyond belief really and quite a lot of people are happy to hand over £50 for a day's training to be uploaded. It's a money generating scheme for the government - training providers have to pay hundreds of pounds to get each custom made course accredited and in turn they make a profit from running the courses.
Some things need more focus, some areas need less. Like now with PSVAR, more safe lift training should be on there. Driving hours should be split into domestic and EU as Stagecoach drivers don't need or care about EU rules, Coach drivers need to know everything about EU rules but nothing really about domestic. etc etc. The courses cover too much rubbish people don't need and not enough about the stuff they do need (oh hang on, that's just the UKs education system all over though isn't it!)
 

philthetube

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Most people taking PCV training will have the CPC rolled up into their training, you need it before you go on the road. All jobs require a bit of box ticking training, it's the modern way.

I really can't see that a few hours in a classroom would put anyone off applying for a good job with decent wages and conditions.

I have a medical on Wednesday, a few hours doing the CPC and I could be back on the road bus driving in a couple of weeks. I loved the job.
A few hours equates to a week. 5 eight hour shifts.
 

Flying Snail

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A few hours equates to a week. 5 eight hour shifts.
One eight hour shift per year, let's not over-egg the terrible hardship adding a recognised professional standard puts on to the poor bus companies.

Some things need more focus, some areas need less. Like now with PSVAR, more safe lift training should be on there. Driving hours should be split into domestic and EU as Stagecoach drivers don't need or care about EU rules, Coach drivers need to know everything about EU rules but nothing really about domestic. etc etc. The courses cover too much rubbish people don't need and not enough about the stuff they do need (oh hang on, that's just the UKs education system all over though isn't it!)

All professional drivers should know the whole range of rules as their licence does not recognise the UK bus/coach split. It of course also allows them more opportunities should they wish to change employment within the industry and indeed gives them some chance of being legally compliant if their employer suddenly asks them to do a job operating on the other set of rules.
 
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markymark2000

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All professional drivers should know the whole range of rules as their licence does not recognise the UK bus/coach split. It of course also allows them more opportunities should they wish to change employment within the industry and indeed gives them some chance of being legally compliant if their employer suddenly asks them to do a job operating on the other set of rules.
But people are going to fall asleep and not care about the CPC if it's full of irrelevant rubbish. If it's relevant to the job, people don't mind it as much.

I will fully accept there are some crossovers of drivers doing some coach, some local bus service work but it's not all that common. 85% of drivers do one or the other.
 

richw

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But people are going to fall asleep and not care about the CPC if it's full of irrelevant rubbish. If it's relevant to the job, people don't mind it as much.
But if it’s stuff that’s telling you what you already know you’re just as likely to get bored and have a sleep
 
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The large issue which is affecting a lot of operators is down to split shifts, being stuck off the road for hours before resuming driving, and not getting paid for that.

This has been a common complaint for years and hasn't got any better, only worse!
Give the Observer a medal!!

I guess I should be qualified to answer this; having been a PSV licence holder for the past 21 years and one of the many to leave the industry in the last few years (although I was a leaver considerably before Covid).

There are many reasons but I suppose I simply became fed up of several things:
The shear monocity of thoughtless computer generated schedules and rosters
Unpaid breaks, sometimes totalling hours.
A lack of backing from faceless managers.

Add to it, poor pay, a high amount of weekend working and a culture of face-fitting with regard to promotions and that was that.

The final step for me was being told I didn't have relevant experience for a commercial post, despite being both trained in manual scheduling, huge experience in Naptan data and in computer scheduling systems used by two major bus groups. It was purely an appointment based on jobs for a friend and I'm pleased to say it unravelled fairly quickly for the lucky candidate. By then I'd left the industry and very little would tempt me back now - even if it was £20 an hour.

Oh and the culture of most bus large operators is a world away from what some of these appalling narcissists promote over their various ego fuelled social media feeds.
Yes, Yes and Yes

do you know what drivers need now?
Let me tell you!

Pay: someone on another topic had placed this considering wages, so I’ll copy and paste it.

Guaranteed Minimum Annual Salary £30k* Equivalency - £470pw basic take-home.
Based on a 5 over 7 roster, 45hr maximum working week*.
Shift Length limited to 10hrs.
*A “Working Week” is defined as the hours from start to finish of any shift, not the individual driving time excluding breaks.

**For Permanent Backshift or Nightshift Rosters an increased Guaranteed Salary of £30,450k applies, based on a 43hr working week.

If a 5 day week exceeds 45hrs by “option” the prevailing rate is £13.54 per each additional hour.
If working less than a 45hr working week, the Guaranteed Minimum Salary applies.

Overtime Rates(Optional 6th & 7th day working)
Day Shift(Before 12pm), Monday to Saturday - £14.10ph.
Backshift & Nightshift(After 12pm) - £18.10ph.
Sunday(Any Shift) - £18.10ph.
Note - OT shifts are paid from Start to Finish, including breaks.

Flexible Part-Time available based on a maximum 3 Days/24hrs per week
Working a variety of shifts, 8-10hrs per day, over 7 days.
Paid at £13ph, weekly pay.
1 day = 12hrs per week = Guaranteed £154.80(£154.80 - July 2022)
2 days = 17hrs per week = Guaranteed £215.42(£219.30 - July 2022)
3 days = 24hrs per week = Guaranteed £280.60(£287.46 - July 2022)…

Guaranteeing a basic yet “good” income is a start, as does banning 12-13hr spread over with 2-3hour breaks in the middle.

Drivers most of the time aren’t payed for breaks but get paid 9hrs when potentially your in attendance at work for 12hrs on a spread over, further draining time from your private life.

The above approach means pay is kept up whilst keeping hours reasonable.

Buses: modern buses such as the 400 MMC are diabolically more frustrating to drive than say a Gemini B9TL, everything down to the lethargic acceleration to stop-start option to the interlocks on the front doors, remove these and youll change the “narrative” that bus operators(directors and managers) know best or that bus builders think these things are great, there not and simply cause frustration from behind the wheel, it’s funny how no one has mention the small but certainly relevant issues.

TICKETER!: The worlds slowest ticket machine, it litterally feels like using a computer the dinosaurs would have used, in an industry that has continually spoke of boarding and dwell times at stops has had a particular funny approach, actually slowing this process down by have a useless slow ticket machine, there are much better options out there, I’d bet my bottom dollar that Ticketer sell them cheap.

TRAFFIC: what we are asking of PCV, HGV or even taxi drivers to do now is drive on roads that have had increased congestion or in other words private car use “exploding” over the last 30 years alone, piling on pressure to those who don’t just spend a few hours driving there private car but actually drive upto 10 hrs per day, you can’t tell me this won’t have a knock on effect on the livelihoods of those driving on the roads for there job.

PASSENGER!: it’s always “Me, Myself & I”, if the bus is late it’s the drivers fault, if another bus doesn’t show then the driver behind it’s there fault, if the bus breaks down likely due to lacklustre maintenance regimes, it’s almost always the driver of that broken down bus that gets the brunt of the frustration thrown in there face, you are no longer respected in society for being a bus drivers, it’s not a great career prospect job nor a tremendously good paying one any longer.

I honestly feel that we bus drivers are expendable nowadays, eventually becoming something of the past.

Simply because what society, Councillors & governments do is indirectly offer everything of road space to motorists, they never question the long term impact in town centre on the streets caused by online shopping nor the consistent argument that each individual motorist “needs” there car, not just for commuting where a potential bus service exists for then to commute or even for them to drive to a retail park where there is an exceptional amount of free car parking.

We disguise these shortcomings as modernation, If it was good enough for our grandparents and there parent before them to make do without much of the modern world then why can’t we gently readjust how we go about our daily life’s, our shopping being done on the high streets and in all stores, using public transport FAR more often thus assisting the sustainability of said service, asking more kids to walk to school where possible.

Funnily enough despite the cost of living increases we still see cars being financed continuallly to the sum of £200-300pm but apparently buses are to expensive to use(forgetting about there reliable issues), subscriptions to Spotify, Sky, MOT, car insurance, road tax and generally other extra curricular costs we choose to pay for.

Change the above narrative of how we live and buses would naturally become far more important once again.
 
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philthetube

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I hold a PCV licence though I have not driven for a few years, I would enjoy driving the odd rail replacement shift or similar at weekends but financially there would be very little benefit to me.

When I have paid to renew my licence, had a medical and done my 5 days CPC I would have to work for quite a long period to see a financial return.

I would have to pay tax on my earnings, I would have to pay tax on the money I spend to get qualified so if the industry wants people like me something has to change.
 

GusB

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PASSENGER!: it’s always “Me, Myself & I”, if the bus is late it’s the drivers fault, if another bus doesn’t show then the driver behind it’s their fault, if the bus breaks down likely due to lacklustre maintenance regimes, it’s almost always the driver of that broken down bus that gets the brunt of the frustration thrown in there face, you are no longer respected in society for being a bus drivers, it’s not a great career prospect job nor a tremendously good paying one any longer.
If you don't like doing a customer-focussed job, you're in the wrong career. I have a retail background and have joked on a number of occasions that if it wasn't for the customers the job would be fine. You have to roll with the punches, unfortunately. I'm not saying that I don't empathise with you to an extent, but that's just the way it is, has been and always will be as long as there are human beings on the planet. You're the interface between the company and the passenger so you're bound to get some flak; it's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid.
 

Megafuss

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I don't think the problem is recruiting them. It's retaining them that is the problem.

In my opinion, most drivers are reasonable people and they know to expect to work shifts at an operation from 6am to 1am. But what they don't like is too much change, especially rest days.

An example of where this goes wrong is Go North East where I know a handful of drivers have left becuase the shifts/rotas keep changing due to emergency timetables and proper service changes.

The company then reduces then timetables further, which then means the duties and rotas change AGAIN. And the cycle continues
 

Surreytraveller

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Really hate this obfuscation of the real annual leave entitlement - what they actually mean is "20 days holiday", and that really is not an attractive proposition.
Not really. When you do shift work, a bank holiday is a normal working day. Therefore it makes sense for the annual leave entitlement to include bank holidays
 
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I find the idea that someone who wanted a change of career I to a job with decent pay and conditions would be put off by a bit of training hard to believe.it certainly isn't what puts me off.

It's pay and conditions.

Bus companies were mad keen on " The market" when it suited them, don't like the continual grinding down on wages and conditions? It's " The market"

Still don't like it? Well there is a guy from Poland that will like it, , it's " The market".

But now there isn't, this is the new market. Drivers drive, managers are supposed to manage.

There seems to be the idea that bus drivers can only transfer to other driving jobs, this is simply not true, I left to work in forensic mental health. I saw fewer mentally ill people and suffered far less abuse in mental health than I did bus driving, in comparison in was money for old rope. There are loads of half decent jobs out there now.

We had drivers from all walks of live, a retired copper who had done his 30 years but wanted to keep busy, he lasted 18 months as he couldn't believe how we were treated. He said he had more abuse in 18 months of bus driving than he had in 30 years of policing.

You get the odd enthusiast who imagines the driving is the main part of the job, they rarely lasted more than a couple of weeks.

Comparisons with retail are understandable. How many times working in retail have people had bricks thrown at them? Coerced into breaking the law? Told to work at the height of summer in a place with the heating turned on full? Spat on? Robbed?

Even then, it wouldn't have been so bad if the management had your back, supported you even just a little bit, but the don't care. My direct experience, not something gleaned from internet forums and Buses monthly.

One last thing, we had a route notorious for trouble, company refused to fit attack screens due to cost. They even denied there was a problem, as a result of this denial the union started recording incidents as the company didn't care, it's was secured and the wanted the money but we're not prepared to help their drivers.

A driver was robbed, hit with a hammer numerous times, he ended up in a brain injuries ward for the rest of his life.

Bizarrely the company put a notice up saying there was no record of trouble on the route. Unfortunately for them we had a good record of every incident in the previous weeks. Why they would put up a notice like that is beyond me.

After that we refused to do the route, so they covered it with managers driving, it only had a couple of weeks to go before the contract ended. The managers all had attack screens fitted.

Bitter? Moi?
 
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