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Why the Portishead Delay?

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Brush 4

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'Extinction Rebellion Portishead & Pill

22 November at 23:42 ·
From a Portishead Extinction Rebellion page
Liam Fox has recently stated that ‘environmental groups such as Extinction Rebellion and insulate Britain’ are responsible for the new delay in the reopening of the Portishead to Bristol railway line.
Totally inaccurate allegations like this, made by Liam Fox, only serve to deepen the loss of trust in politicians as they manipulate the truth for their own self serving ends.
Extinction Rebellion Portishead and Pill group is in favour of the railway link. We have no intention to challenge the development of this line.'

So, what are the environmental issues the Gov are considering? Is there a hidden agenda re the Portishead reopening? Is it preparation for dropping the scheme?
 
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Kingham West

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The Oxford -Bicester Order was almost stopped by pro road environmentalists , the worry is fanatics may go for Judicial Review and win . (It involved sedge grasses) and was spurious , but cost a fortune .
I am pleased XR in your area supports the environmental benefits of Portishead , I fear there are other groups with different ideas.
 

stuu

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So, what are the environmental issues the Gov are considering? Is there a hiddem agenda re the Portishead reopening? Is it preparation for dropping the scheme?
The applicants haven't accounted for how the extra trains will fit in the UK carbon budget (which I had never heard of until I read it either). So it is more that it is theoretically open to challenge, and the government want to avoid it going to court
 

Mintona

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I remember when I first moved to Bristol on 2014 that it was about to be reopened.

I’m not convinced it will ever happen.
 

yorksrob

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"pro-road environmentalists" if they exist, deserve to be roundly pilloried.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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The applicants haven't accounted for how the extra trains will fit in the UK carbon budget (which I had never heard of until I read it either). So it is more that it is theoretically open to challenge, and the government want to avoid it going to court

Surely a positive impact overall goes without saying, as it will remove cars from an extremely busy and congested (and polluting) arterial road into Bristol?
 

D365

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"pro-road environmentalists" if they exist, deserve to be roundly pilloried.
Perhaps twitter isn't a great sample, but the number of "railways will be obsolete" comments (arguing against HS2 and other new-build such as EWR) is astounding. With the same people often arguing in the favour of cars instead - electric or otherwise.
 

Watershed

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Perhaps twitter isn't a great sample, but the number of "railways will be obsolete" comments (arguing against HS2 and other new-build such as EWR) is astounding. With the same people often arguing in the favour of cars instead - electric or otherwise.
We shouldn't assume that rail - let alone heavy rail - is the right solution for every potential flow.

It will often be the most appropriate solution for longer journeys and busy flows, but an electric car may well create fewer emissions per passenger when compared to a lightly loaded 30 year old DMU, for example.
 

D365

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We shouldn't assume that rail - let alone heavy rail - is the right solution for every potential flow.

It will often be the most appropriate solution for longer journeys and busy flows, but an electric car may well create fewer emissions per passenger when compared to a lightly loaded 30 year old DMU, for example.
Agree entirely, but electric cars is an argument I've heard as to why EWR shouldn't be built in South Cambridgeshire.
 

stuu

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Surely a positive impact overall goes without saying, as it will remove cars from an extremely busy and congested (and polluting) arterial road into Bristol?
You would think... but that is the reason for the delay
 

Yindee8191

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Does anyone know if this will delay the awarding of contracts as well? Network Rail was due to do that this winter iirc.
 

Kingham West

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No it’s not an error , pro road environmentalists , funded the very expensive judicial review , read the application , usefull fool to use uncle Jo,s words .
It was terrifyingly close to stopping the lot , 6 months to make sure they have no avenue to challenge the Secretary of State, is needed at Pill.
The enemies of the railways , have not gone away since the 1960s, they have just changed tactics .
 

yorksrob

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Perhaps twitter isn't a great sample, but the number of "railways will be obsolete" comments (arguing against HS2 and other new-build such as EWR) is astounding. With the same people often arguing in the favour of cars instead - electric or otherwise.

No it’s not an error , pro road environmentalists , funded the very expensive judicial review , read the application , usefull fool to use uncle Jo,s words .
It was terrifyingly close to stopping the lot , 6 months to make sure they have no avenue to challenge the Secretary of State, is needed at Pill.
The enemies of the railways , have not gone away since the 1960s, they have just changed tactics .

The enemy will always be there.

I thought the government was clamping down on judicial review. These must have wealthy backers.
 

davetheguard

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Thanks to "Brush 4" for asking the original question & to "stuu" for answering it. I must admit I was tempted to think it was the S of S kicking the can down the road, so thanks for shooting down my prejudice.

I've been following the details of Portishead reopening for what seems an awful long time, so it's good to hear that the government haven't gone off the boil on this, and the delay lies elsewhere. This is such a worthwhile scheme, which could help to make a lot of people's journey into work significantly more pleasant.
 

Brissle Girl

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Use a couple of battery 230s on the line - perfectly adequate given the line speeds and would reduce the carbon footprint at a stroke. Run into a reopened platform 2 at Temple Meads so the units don't have to go anywhere else.
 

507020

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"pro-road environmentalists" if they exist, deserve to be roundly pilloried.
I don’t know about pro-road environmentalists, but there are certainly pro-air environmentalists. One of them is called Chris Packham.
The enemies of the railways, have not gone away since the 1960s, they have just changed tactics.
A sobering thought. What tactics do we, as the allies of the railways have to use against our old enemy, other than a “neutral jing” type deferral under section 107(3) of the planning act 2008, which only causes more delays for the residents of Portishead and Pill who desperately need to use the line to get to Bristol?
 

zwk500

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A sobering thought. What tactics do we, as the allies of the railways have to use against our old enemy, other than a “neutral jing” type deferral under section 107(3) of the planning act 2008, which only causes more delays for the residents of Portishead and Pill who desperately need to use the line to get to Bristol?
First of all, we should entirely reframe the debate from 'trains vs roads' to 'the best form of connectivity'. Then we should make sure we advance proposals that actually have good cases, like this, instead of peddling nostalgic fantasies.
 

bluenoxid

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The applicants haven't accounted for how the extra trains will fit in the UK carbon budget (which I had never heard of until I read it either). So it is more that it is theoretically open to challenge, and the government want to avoid it going to court
Whilst I understand the preference to avoid an uncontrollable delay by the matter going to court and people closer to this will probably put me straight. It feels like an oversight that should have been picked up before now.
 

geoffk

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The Railway Conversion league, Angus Dalgleish, Paul Withrington.........."they've not gone away, you know".
 

IanXC

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We shouldn't assume that rail - let alone heavy rail - is the right solution for every potential flow.

It will often be the most appropriate solution for longer journeys and busy flows, but an electric car may well create fewer emissions per passenger when compared to a lightly loaded 30 year old DMU, for example.

Only because we don't properly count other particulate matter, which is of course more dangerous directly to human health.

Its also rather a strawman to assume that in 10 years time we will still be operating what are currently 30 year old DMUs.
 

Kingham West

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I don’t know about pro-road environmentalists, but there are certainly pro-air environmentalists. One of them is called Chris Packham.

A sobering thought. What tactics do we, as the allies of the railways have to use against our old enemy, other than a “neutral jing” type deferral under section 107(3) of the planning act 2008, which only causes more delays for the residents of Portishead and Pill who desperately need to use the line to
The Railway Conversion league, Angus Dalgleish, Paul Withrington.........."they've not gone away, you know".
Who was Mr Witherington’s backer , he of course never said , they have good lawyers on speed dial ..
 

daodao

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One of them is called Chris Packham.
Wikipedia records that in 2019, Packham stated he would no longer take internal flights and that he had purchased an electric car, which is clearly more environmentally beneficial than old diesel trains.
And all those Beeching worshippers can join them.
Beeching made a few mistakes, in part because of rough-and-ready passenger statistics and a desire by certain rail managers to force through some closures, but on the whole he was an asset to British Railways by promoting modernisation and a focus on rail's main role for high volume passenger traffic and bulk freight loads. One aspect that was not considered was potential demographic change. Passenger services to Portishead were discontinued in 1964 following the Reshaping of British Railways report. However, since then it has become a major dormitory town for Bristol and it is this, combined with the marked population growth, that provides the case for its re-opening. That could not have been predicted 60 years ago.
 
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Watershed

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Only because we don't properly count other particulate matter, which is of course more dangerous directly to human health.
Well yes, that can't be overlooked. There is also the fact that railway emissions are obviously concentrated around railway lines, which aren't normally as close to people's lungs as a busy street.

However, I would be surprised if the tyre particulates come remotely close to some of the soot and grime belched out by some of the DMUs in the fleet.

Its also rather a strawman to assume that in 10 years time we will still be operating what are currently 30 year old DMUs.
There are currently no proposals to replace most Sprinters (which are now nearer 40 years old), let alone the Turbos I had in mind. That is a massive procurement exercise and I suspect that even if you started it tomorrow with a blank cheque, you would be hard pressed to have them all replaced in 10 years.
 
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