Why Voyager and not Pendolino?

[vatman]

Hi all,

My first post......

I have just booked first class tickets from Wolverhampton to Euston on Virgin trains. I have done this many times before online always booking the 09.45 from Wolverhampton. The train has always been the Pendolino. I have always requested Coach H as the quiet coach.

However, this time I was allocated Coach E which I find is the first class coach on Voyager trains but is not a quiet coach. This is the first time this has happened.

Does anyone know why the Voyager may have been assigned on this occasion? Is the level of service and comfort on Voyager the same as the Pendolinos? If not, should the price of the ticket reflect this?

Thanks for any assistance

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Voyagers are the same if not better than Pendolinos IMO but many will choose to disagree.

 

[vatman]

I should perhaps add that my train is a weekday train

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . If not, should the price of the ticket reflect this?

The prices are set by a number of factors, but the type of train is not one of them; consequently, there is no prospect of any successful negotiation over price where the type of train is the only change.

Opinions will differ over comfort, though I do find the noise and vibration of underfloor diesel engines (in Voyagers and others) to be highly unpleasant.

The first class facilities provided on any specific service will normally be the same, regardless of type of train, with one important proviso - while Pendolinos are long trains, Voyagers are shorter and 2 are often coupled together to form a longer unit; this creates a train of 2 portions with no interconnecting passageway, and so the crew are isolated in one portion. This may restrict the service that is available in one or both portions.

 

[transmanche]

Does anyone know why the Voyager may have been assigned on this occasion?

Virgin have a fleet that includes Pendolino and Voyager trains. Some/most of the London-Wolverhampton Pendolino services have been joined up with Birmingham-Scotland Voyager services - so they operate as through London-Scotland via Birmingham services.

I assume this means that some services will be Pendolino throughout and others will be Voyagers throughout.

This is an oversimplification, but probably answers the OPs question.

 

[NotATrainspott]

IIRC, the Euston-Wolverhampton trains were combined with the Glasgow/Edinburgh-Birmingham trains to form a slower through service. As most of the Scotland-Birmingham trains had to be under-wire Voyagers, it now means that some of these Voyagers are still used but now for the through service to Euston while some of the Pendolinos from Euston now continue through to Scotland. Virgin were considering getting rid of the Voyagers once their lease ends and replacing them with a kind of mini-Pendolino but the franchising debacle got in the way and all the plans went up in the air.

 

[ainsworth74]

Voyagers are the same if not better than Pendolinos IMO but many will choose to disagree.

Not if you're travelling first class.

 

[cambsy]

There is a difference in first class service between a Super Voyager and Pendolino, Pendolno has full dining options, where as a Super Voyager as a limited range of food, due to smaller kitchen and galley, also a lot more first class seating on Pendolino.

 

[CalderRail]

The prices are set by a number of factors, but the type of train is not one of them; consequently, there is no prospect of any successful negotiation over price where the type of train is the only change.

I wish there was - Northern Rail would be paying me every time a pacer turned up!

 

[All Line Rover]

In case the OP is unaware, Voyagers have a single First Class carriage. whereas Pendolinos have four. For this reason, if you are the sort of person who prefers to sit in a Quiet Coach, you would be better off booking a Standard Class ticket and getting a reservation in Coach A (the Standard Class Quiet Coach) when travelling on a Voyager.

In addition, many of the seats in the single First Class carriage don't line up properly with the windows. On the other hand, Coach D (which is Standard Class 90% of the time) has seats which are a compromise between First and Standard Class and which almost all line up with the windows.

Unlike on a Pendolino, there are no First Class toilets on a Voyager. The toilet in Coach E is for the use of both First and Standard Class passengers.

Overall, there is very little incentive to travel First Class on a (Virgin) Voyager. The only reason I can think of is where Standard Class is likely to be packed.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I have used this train twice recently. Boarding at Birmingham International. Each time it had been made up of two Voyagers (Super?). Both times my reservations have been for Pendalino seat plans. The first time I asked I was told to sit anywhere. Quite good for me as I managed to get seats in the convertible first/standard carriage in the rear train. I do enjoy the bigger windows in the Voyager. The cabin felt noticeably lighter. More like a HST coach rather than the airline style Pendalinos.

Oddly each time the train has showed delayed on the information screens for a quarter of an hour before arrival at Birmingham International. Same on the Nation Rail App. Both times it has arrived and departed on time. The automated station announcements also say it is an eleven coach Pendalino with first class at the front and standard at the rear. All in all a very strange train.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[Carlisle]

In case the OP is unaware, Voyagers have a single First Class carriage. whereas Pendolinos have four. For this reason, if you are the sort of person who prefers to sit in a Quiet Coach, you would be better off booking a Standard Class ticket and getting a reservation in Coach A (the Standard Class Quiet Coach) when travelling on a Voyager.

In addition, many of the seats in the single First Class carriage don't line up properly with the windows. On the other hand, Coach D (which is Standard Class 90% of the time) has seats which are a compromise between First and Standard Class and which almost all line up with the windows.

Unlike on a Pendolino, there are no First Class toilets on a Voyager. The toilet in Coach E is for the use of both First and Standard Class passengers.

Overall, there is very little incentive to travel First Class on a (Virgin) Voyager. The only reason I can think of is where Standard Class is likely to be packed.

I'm not aware other than maybe the colours of one or two fittings that first class toilets differ in any way from standard class ones

 

[Stewart2887]

I'm just home from a trip from Oxford to Edinburgh, and my first experience of a Pendolino. Must be the most comfortable train on the network-plenty space and very quiet. First part of todays journey home was First Transpennine 185 from Edinburgh to Preston-very overcrowded, only one toilet working. Lesson learned.

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm not aware other than maybe the colours of one or two fittings that first class toilets differ in any way from standard class ones

They are the same in every way, save for the fact that they are used less frequently and therefore tend to be cleaner (and, less significantly, have slightly different colours!).

 

[bengolding]

The 0550 Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham should be a double Voyager. However, this still only means there are about 50 FC seats as opposed to 150+ on a Pendolino, so 1st Advance fares are at a higher price tier.

Prior to the change, the 0945 was the last train offering full breakfast from New St. Now, it is the 0930 since both the 1010 and preceding 0950 are Voyagers that offer awful breakfast rolls. Having said that, I was on the 1143 Euston to Glasgow recently - a double Voyager and I had the rarity of the entire carriage in 1st to myself on the front set, as far as International. Pity the 1st Light Bites sandwich options as of late haven't been too apetising.

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm just home from a trip from Oxford to Edinburgh, and my first experience of a Pendolino. Must be the most comfortable train on the network-plenty space and very quiet. First part of todays journey home was First Transpennine 185 from Edinburgh to Preston-very overcrowded, only one toilet working. Lesson learned.

They're cheap and plasticity, though. Apart from the rattles that are often heard, the internal doors frequently open of their own accord when the train tilts (not just Pendolinos, but Voyagers also). The door separating First Class and the kitchen in Coach K is particularly prone. Likewise, on Voyagers, the door separating the Quiet Coach and the bike storage area. Last week on a Pendolino from Euston to Manchester the door separating the Quiet Coach from the vestibule/toilet area was opening and closing at least once a minute - after opening/closing well over 120 times it gets extremely annoying!

No other rolling stock, to my knowledge, suffers from a similar problem. I genuinely can't believe that, after all these years, the problem still hasn't been fixed. It's not as if the trains need a redesign - just fix the ****** internal doors! When Virgin had the old 'Hotline' magazines I was often tempted to use a couple to jam the door in the Quiet Coach...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 0550 Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham should be a double Voyager. However, this still only means there are about 50 FC seats as opposed to 150+ on a Pendolino, so 1st Advance fares are at a higher price tier.

Prior to the change, the 0945 was the last train offering full breakfast from New St. Now, it is the 0930 since both the 1010 and preceding 0950 are Voyagers that offer awful breakfast rolls. Having said that, I was on the 1143 Euston to Glasgow recently - a double Voyager and I had the rarity of the entire carriage in 1st to myself on the front set, as far as International. Pity the 1st Light Bites sandwich options as of late haven't been too apetising.

As is typical of Virgin Trains (or should I say the Virgin brand in general), despite having some of the highest priced First Class tickets on the network they can't afford a few extra pence per passenger to procure some decent food. Given that is their attitude, they should follow FGW's example - lower priced tickets in exchange for chargeable, but quality, food.

 

[SephenWorceste]

>No other rolling stock, to my knowledge, suffers from a similar problem. I genuinely can't believe that, after all these years, the problem still hasn't been fixed. It's not as if the trains need a redesign - just fix the ****** internal doors! When Virgin had the old 'Hotline' magazines I was often tempted to use a couple to jam the door in the Quiet Coach..

I often suffer this on a HST. Or even worse, the door does not shut at all. Typically stuck a few inches out. It makes the saloon noisy and cold particularly if the window in the outside door is open. Perhaps it is just FGW on the Cotswold Line. I think I remember the same problem on HST trains when they were first introduced. I was a child and in those days electric doors were a novelty even in buildings. A door with a life of its own was good entertainment.

 

[Class83]

The 0550 Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham should be a double Voyager. However, this still only means there are about 50 FC seats as opposed to 150+ on a Pendolino, so 1st Advance fares are at a higher price tier.

If the only way 1st class can be filled on a peak service is to sell discounted AP tickets then it suggests that there is too much 1st class accommodation on the train. Virgin would probably do well to make the 9 car sets 6+3.

 

[backontrack]

I personally dislike Pendys. Voyagers are meh.

 

[pemma]

Does anyone know why the Voyager may have been assigned on this occasion?

Virgin have always used some Voyagers on services completely under the wires since they've introduced Voyagers. Since Arriva took on the XC franchise, this has mainly happened on Birmingham-Scotland services - previously it was on some Manchester-Birmingham services. Virgin didn't want to introduce more electric trains as they sometimes need to divert services via non-electrified routes. However, that may change when the franchise is re-let as a result of more electrified routes in the North West.

More recently Virgin have introduced Scotland-Birmingham-London through services meaning more Voyagers appear on quieter services between Birmingham and London and Pendolinos appear on busier services between Birmingham and Scotland.

You can request a preference for a window seat, an aisle seat, a table seat, a seat near a toilet, a seat in a quiet zone, a seat near a luggage rack or a seat with a view when making a seat reservation but these preferences are subject to availability and it's not guaranteed that your preferences will be met even if there is an available seat which meets them.

 

[BantamMenace]

A little off topic but does anyone know why the Scotland to Birmingham (and onto London) trains stop at all regular virgin stops apart from stafford where only one or two a day stop. I study at lancaster and my girlfriend lives in staffordshire so i always have to change to LM or XC at crewe.

 

[pemma]

A little off topic but does anyone know why the Scotland to Birmingham (and onto London) trains stop at all regular virgin stops apart from stafford where only one or two a day stop. I study at lancaster and my girlfriend lives in staffordshire so i always have to change to LM or XC at crewe.

Stafford's only a regular calling point on the Liverpool-London Virgin services.

Paths on the WCML are limited so maybe Stafford has less demand for a call on the Birmingham-Scotland services compared to other stations?

 

[bengolding]

I bet VT are cursing themselves for combining the 2 separate routes as 1. Last Thursday's problems around Lancaster significant delays to the xx10s from New St to Euston. Since these are often Voyagers combined with now stopping at MKC makes them particularly busy over the quieter xx30s and 50s. One reason why I tend to get these services.

 

[Goatboy]

Quite. I hadn't thought about this until it was too late and I'd booked several journeys using the xx10. The first was 70 late because of problems hundreds of miles away. The second is in a few weeks and I'd really rather not miss that Eurostar..

 

[WestCoast]

I travel fairly regularly between Birmingham and Preston and IME the through service has made the journey longer and less reliable. For example, there was flooding between Coventry and Birmingham International on Friday, it resulted in delays to the Scotland service.

Southbound (northbound as well?), the service also pauses at Wolverhampton between arrival at xx.32 and departure at xx.45, presumably due to pathing and to allow time for service recovery. This extends the journey between the North West/Scotland and Birmingham by about 10 minutes. Not insignificant.

Between Crewe and New Street, LM's Liverpool services are actually around 5-7 minutes faster now than VT's Scotland services.

 

[nw1]

Stafford's only a regular calling point on the Liverpool-London Virgin services.

Paths on the WCML are limited so maybe Stafford has less demand for a call on the Birmingham-Scotland services compared to other stations?

I remember this was the case even in the mid 80s. I have relatives at Stafford so occasionally travelled up there by train. I remember that Stafford had just about no through trains to Scotland during the day - I think there was one about 0830 and that was it. As now, most of the London trains that stopped were Liverpool services (irregular spacing, approx every 90 mins) with the odd Holyhead - in addition to an approximately hourly (3 out of 4 hours or so) Birmingham to either Manchester or Liverpool intercity (many coming from Reading and beyond). A good number of even Birmingham to Manchester trains didn't call in those days!

The area seemed to get quite a big improvement in terms of trains calling at Stafford around the start of the nineties; also around then Penkridge went from being a peak hour stop to getting a regular service.

 

[6Gman]

A little off topic but does anyone know why the Scotland to Birmingham (and onto London) trains stop at all regular virgin stops apart from stafford where only one or two a day stop. I study at lancaster and my girlfriend lives in staffordshire so i always have to change to LM or XC at crewe.

Isn't it to keep Birmingham - Stafford commuters/ shoppers etc off northbound trains?

 

[moggie]

Seems VT have forgotten the Operation Princess debacle so soon. Timekeeping was lousy on that and is now woeful on the West Mids London Service. Coupled with increased use of Voyagers with the seat reservation lottery and two trains in one which the normals really can't get their head around it's another VT disaster snatched firmly from the jaws of victory.

As for the food..........why bother I ask.

 

[bengolding]

Last week, I had to go to Wolverhampton. It is now quicker to get there from Euston by getting the xx07 Liverpool and changing at Stafford for the Bournemouth. The total journey time was around 90 mins, compared to almost 2 hrs on the direct 1143 Voyager to Glasgow. I returned later via Stafford again which was quicker than the direct xx45 to Euston (which was 20 late).

 

[Deerfold]

If the only way 1st class can be filled on a peak service is to sell discounted AP tickets then it suggests that there is too much 1st class accommodation on the train. Virgin would probably do well to make the 9 car sets 6+3.

Unless of course the "cheap 1st class tickets" are more expensive than the cheap STD class tickets they would otherwise sell.