Wigan Stations

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I take all of us back to the past discussions on extending the Merseyrail 3rd rail system to terminate in a bay platform at Wigan Wallgate and the ideas for a new Skelmersdale rail service in that area. Would these recent ideas expressed on the last few postings on this thread on this thread have severe implications for those two projects ?

 

[snail]

Is it really all that much of a hassle to interchange between Wallgate and North Western? NRE has walking time between the two as 11 minutes - but that is being very, very generous. They're practically across the road from eath other! And is there much in the way of interchange between the two stations anyway?

Takes me 3 minutes train to train every morning. But that's 'downhill' (i.e. down stairs at both stations ), takes slightly longer the other way!

By way of comparison, it takes me 2.5 minutes to get from the entrance to Manchester Piccadilly station concourse (by Gateway House) to Platform 14.

 

[Bevan Price]

No shouldnt really be an issue due to the roads layout (theres only one road between the two) and theyve gone for the spinal bus route option, it will act like an hourglass and every bus will have to pass the current bus station, King Street or Wallgate to cross the town centre anyway. The idea is every service will call at both bus stations

Causing potential chaos problems & making bus journeys slower. The road layout around Wigan town centre, and the plague of traffic lights therein, cause enough delays now. If buses from (for example) the Hindley, Horwich & Chorley directions had to use the existing bus station and then continue to a new bus station at Wigan North Western, it would add several minutes to the running time, increasing costs but probably with little (if any) increase in revenue. The consequences would be either increased bus fares or reduction in service frequencies.

 

[WatcherZero]

Except as I already posted 7.5% of people entering the town centre are making a bus-rail interchange so demand is already there. There are no traffic lights on Dorning Street and on King street west the only set is used almost exclusivley to regulate buses using the T junction. And 400m added on to the end of the existing journey isnt going to break the bank but could increase the services attractiveness, remember the bus companies themselves were involved in drawing up the plan, it was the orbital bus route they had concerns about because passengers would have to have foreknowledge of which bus stop to go to for the service they wanted.

 

[Tony2215]

wigan stations should be merged together with a decent footbridge or something. Look at Lichfield Trent Valley? Its about the same distance walk from the WCML platforms to the "Lichfield Wallgate" platforms but without a main road.

 

[edwin_m]

Either way they need to decide what they do about Wallgate (the station) before any of its routes is electrified. That bridge under Wallgate (the street) looks like a tricky one for clearances and installing wires might well be easier if the existing station wasn't there.

 

[lancastrian]

Can I take all of us back to the past discussions on extending the Merseyrail 3rd rail system to terminate in a bay platform at Wigan Wallgate and the ideas for a new Skelmersdale rail service in that area. Would these recent ideas expressed on the last few postings on this thread on this thread have severe implications for those two projects ?

I agree, there is a reason there are two stations in Wigan. Basically because North Western is on a north/south route and Wallgate is on an east/west route. Yes I know that they were built by two different railway companies, but there served two different markets.

It is very easy to interchange between the two stations, I have done it quite few times, with no problems at any time. As has been stated, I have walked further between platform on the Underground than between the two Wigan stations.

I used to go to Wigan often for a Education Course and used Wallgate daily during that time. I spent quite a few hours looking at both stations to see if they could be easily combined, and I cam to the conclusion, that although it could be done, that with the cost and disruption it would not be worth it.

Just a basic point, the lines through North Western station go over Wallgate and the lines through Wallgate station go under Wallgate. The basic problem is how to get the connecting lines out of the North Western platforms, over Wallgate, then down easy enough so that they could go under the current rail bridge and connect to the Kirkby & Southport lines, and on a curve that would not 'screech' like mad as a train used it.

The only easy, safe and practical route is the current one through Wallgate station, lets leave it be and hopefully see Network Rail spend the money on electrifying the Lostock Junction through Wigan to Southport line.

 

[WatcherZero]

There used to actually be three neighbouring stations, Wigan Central was where the Grand Arcade is now, the station originally opened in 1879 half a mile further out along Dornington Street but was moved into the town centre in 1892, it closed in 1965. It operated trains to Manchester Central and later Warrington too along with trains in the Wigan coalfields lines. Wigan Wallgate moved closer to the town centre too, it was orginally a few hundred meters further towards Southport.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wigan Central was where the Grand Arcade is now, the station originally opened in 1879 half a mile further out along Dornington Street but was moved into the town centre in 1892, it closed in 1965. It operated trains to Manchester Central and later Warrington too along with trains in the Wigan coalfields lines.

As you say, services from Wigan Central station to Manchester Central station were the mainstay of the CLC service patterns from there, but in 1900, a west to north curve at Glazebrook was constructed to allow services to the Liverpool area. In 1923, the line became part of the LNER system, but was still operated as part of the CLC system. In fact, the service patterns increased in-between the two main railway amalgamation years of 1923 and 1948, but these dramatically saw a marked reduction in passenger number usage from 1948 onwards.

Incidentally, the first station was situated at Darlington Street, not Dornington Street.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the Wigan Central line was pure GC rather than being part of the CLC joint network. The start of an intended GC expansion to Blackpool and beyond I think.

 

[yorksrob]

The Wigan stations are extremely easy to interchange between. I think money spent trying to merge the two would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Eagle]

I think it's less about the money and more about the fact you can't easily merge them without demolishing some non-railway buildings. Same reason West Hampstead interchange plans never got off the ground.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I believe the Wigan Central line was pure GC rather than being part of the CLC joint network. The start of an intended GC expansion to Blackpool and beyond I think.

The Great Central Railway, as such, became defunct at the period of the 1923 grouping and that line in the Wigan area would have then entered into LNER hands with CLC connections that seemed to carry on. I could be wrong in my assumptions here as my amateur railway historical knowledge is not at all infallible, which I will be the first to admit.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, all the purely Great Central routes became LNER at Grouping and the CLC became two-thirds LNER and one-third LMS reflecting the absorption of the three constituent companies. I was referring to the GC specifically because they built the Wigan route and had (for a while) the ambition to extend it, but I should think that idea died long before the Grouping.

 

[Darren R]

Yes, all the purely Great Central routes became LNER at Grouping and the CLC became two-thirds LNER and one-third LMS reflecting the absorption of the three constituent companies. I was referring to the GC specifically because they built the Wigan route and had (for a while) the ambition to extend it, but I should think that idea died long before the Grouping.

You are quite correct - the MSL branch to Wigan Central was built as a purely speculative line in an attempt to tap into the Central Lancashire traffic (a sort of early ORCATS-raid! ) with the intention to extend the line north-westwards, crossing the Ribble and continuing to Blackpool. Wigan Central station was only ever small, as when built it was only intended to be temporary.