Wigan to Bolton electrification officially given go ahead

[Watershed]

Crow Nest isnt going to get touched for a long time, it was only resignaled in 2013.

Crow Nest Jn-Wigan is fine, it's Crow Nest-Salford Crescent (specifically, Crow Nest-Walkden) that's poor - it's an 8 minute headway behind stoppers. But as you say, I suspect it won't be done.

 

[CAF397]

Good news.

Of course, the best thing would be to cut the Alderley Edge service back to Wigan North Western, to make it purely EMU.

Send the Southports via Atherton, you'll upset some retired MP up there or something but it'll be the best option.

That's how it was in May 2018. Half hourly Wigan North Western via Bolton to Stalybridge/Alderley Edge.

If they go back to that, and with Stalybridge getting wires (when?) it can be a purely EMU service.

Any chance of additional 331 orders seeing as they've mentioned "6-carriages"? Unless they will be 323s.

 

[175001]

Indeed it was. And it worked.

I guess the 323 cascade will work them

 

[civ-eng-jim]

Presumably Southport-bound 769s will drop/raise the pan at Ince, giving 9 more miles of electric working from Bolton.
On Trackmaps, Ince already has 6-car platforms and Hindley and Westhoughton 5-car, so the platform extensions don't look too significant.

If we are being critical, I guess this is the simplest scheme to authorise to address the "red wall" and climate change agendas and the north's demands generally.
One hopes it is the first of several such announcements.
A pity he couldn't have announced Oxenholme-Windermere while he was at it.
But at least the ghost of Chris Grayling is laid.
Will this stretch be the acid test of NR's cost control?

The 6-cars for Ince I presume includes the "overgrown" part of the platform as the Section Appendix has it at 124m....but only 109m of that is a compliant width. 35m is to be refurbished to make a 144m length.

At Westhoughton it is 96m long, with a mixture of refurbishment and platform extension.

Hindley is 120m and is being part refurbished, part extension.

 

[superkev]

How much infastructure works like bridge rebuilding, track lowering etc was completed before the scheme was paused ("Graylinged").
The scheme at Church Fenton has been made easier as most of the bridges had been done before that was "Graylinged" although you woulnt think so be the long tomescale.
K

 

[59CosG95]

That is hopefully better understood as well than it was in 2013!

And that's probably another reason why the cost has jumped for the initial £37m to £78m, alongside inflation and costs for bridges etc.

 

[The Planner]

Crow Nest Jn-Wigan is fine, it's Crow Nest-Salford Crescent (specifically, Crow Nest-Walkden) that's poor - it's an 8 minute headway behind stoppers. But as you say, I suspect it won't be done.

That was the bit that was re-signaled. Removed Crow Nest, Atherton Goods Yard and Walkden boxes. It was pretty much like for like as they were all AB so Crow Nest to Atherton was an 8-9 minute section prior.

 

[Ianno87]

How much infastructure works like bridge rebuilding, track lowering etc was completed before the scheme was paused ("Graylinged").

I recall the Lostock end was all sorted with Bolton electrification; the Rumworth Road overbridge was rebuilt, and the existing wire run-off extends a reasonable distance towards Westhoughton; I recall that the length done also include the stuff for the required Neutral Section; so should be a case of just extending what is already there.

I don't think any physical works were done elsewhere.

 

[geoffk]

That's how it was in May 2018. Half hourly Wigan North Western via Bolton to Stalybridge/Alderley Edge.

If they go back to that, and with Stalybridge getting wires (when?) it can be a purely EMU service.

Any chance of additional 331 orders seeing as they've mentioned "6-carriages"? Unless they will be 323s.

That was the original plan wasn't it, with the two services interworked at Wigan, until Northern was lobbied by Southport folk wanting their service to Piccadilly back.

 

[ic31420]

For anyone on this forum who lives in or near Wigan, they will know that hundreds of thousands of pounds is being pumped into building cycling lanes across Wigan borough. The Saddle junction at Newtown all there way up to the motorway junction at Marus Bridge is being turned into a crazy golf course that no cyclist is even using!!!! All they have done is narrow arterial roads and make them a little bit more congested with vehicles than they were before.

I believe the cycling projects are being funded by the TfGM and not the Council - it is all part of Burnham's ten year plan to make Greater Manchester a carbon cleaner environment where people will be encouraged to use public transport or make more journeys on foot or bicycle. I understand from May next year (2022), there will also be a kind of congestion charge on larger vehicles entering central Manchester.

The TfGM have some good initiatives, but sadly the cycle lane project across Wigan is a white elephant where government money is being wasted and would be better served elsewhere to improve rail services across the region.

CJ

We're getting OT here and risking the wrath of the RF keen on mods but. Yes the cycleway stuff is from the beelines TFGM money. It is essentially extra money for the LA.

Wigan for once with cycling (though it is important to remember beelines is not just Cycling but all forms of active transport particularly walking running cycling) have seized the bull by the horns and have done some really good work.

As a keen cyclists who regularly commutes into Wigan I have seen the benefits. However I agree these Cyclops junctions (Trinity Street in Bolton is another) offer questionable value. They supposedly prioritiese cycling but yet to make a right turn using the new cycling channels I have to wait for three red lights. Needless to say I just use the right turn lane as I always have and wait on one red light.

However it is important not remember these facilities are not for me, the regular confident, competent cyclist covering 6-8k a year. They're for Mrs Miggins who wants to use a bike to nip to Sainsbury's for a pack of Holland's or to Galloway's for a Meat and Tata, but is put off by traffic and wouldn't feel confident crossing two busy lanes to get to the right turn lane.

Other bee lines stuff has included upgraded and new ped crossings. Additional crossing facilities on traffic signals etc.

I was all for the beelines stuff and was actively involved until at a meeting I found that while TFGM will fund the construction of stuff there is no funding for going maintenance and repairs and this falls to local authorities. The same local authorities that can't afford to repaint white lines or existing cycle lanes.

Alas...this is not cyclinguk or cyclechat.

I recall the Lostock end was all sorted with Bolton electrification; the Rumworth Road overbridge was rebuilt, and the existing wire run-off extends a reasonable distance towards Westhoughton; I recall that the length done also include the stuff for the required Neutral Section; so should be a case of just extending what is already there.

I don't think any physical works were done elsewhere.

There are quite a few piles in up the hill out of Lostock too.

I wonder how much the refurbishment of the platforms will cost at today's crackers Railway prices. I wonder how much it would have cost over the years just to keep the long bits open.

 

[snowball]

Most of the overbridges look very small on the OS 1:50k and 1:25k maps. The only ones that look like majorish roads are

the M61, which will undoubtedly have adequate headroom but may need its parapets raised

A6 Manchester Road

B6236 Church Street (at Westhoughton station)

Hall Lane/ Ladies Lane (at Hindley station)

Ince Green Lane (at Ince station)

Has LDECRexile been heard from in the last year?

 

[AMD]

Getting picky here "two-level crossings." - there's a foot crossing west of Westhoughton but there's not a second crossing anywhere between Wigan and Lostock Jct.

Also unless 6 car trains are restricted to platform 1 at Wigan NW, something expensive will happen here as P3 is barely 80m, any extension will result in the platform reaching the main station building as the other end meets station jct.

 

[175001]

The 2nd crossing was closed years ago

 

[Watershed]

Also unless 6 car trains are restricted to platform 1 at Wigan NW

As stated here, that would work just fine. Obviously if the bay were long enough, you'd use that instead because it allows WCML traffic to be looped in platform 1. But such looping is only an option for relatively short freight trains (the platform is 168m, the track circuit is probably a little longer) in the first place, so it doesn't make a massive difference.

 

[hwl]

That's how it was in May 2018. Half hourly Wigan North Western via Bolton to Stalybridge/Alderley Edge.

If they go back to that, and with Stalybridge getting wires (when?) it can be a purely EMU service.

Any chance of additional 331 orders seeing as they've mentioned "6-carriages"? Unless they will be 323s.

A mix of 323 (more available ex WMR if needed) and 331 with 769s for those services going west of Wallgate

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And that's probably another reason why the cost has jumped for the initial £37m to £78m, alongside inflation and costs for bridges etc.

It has 3-4 arched bridges that will probably need to be rebuilt rest should provide sufficient clearances although a couple are steel so may present an issue so thats 6 at worst case. This is a straightforward electrification job and lends itself to a 2-3 month blockade to get bulk of the work done. It doesn't need a NG connection.

So its c42 stkm being done for a 1.85m/stkm but offset station works at £5m and say £8m for bridges you get 1.5m/stkm which is still well short of the 1.0m target that an infill job ought to cost. Anyhow Dept of T have authorised it and its now upto NR and industry partners to show they can deliver it for less. Also adding in an extra signal section to improve headway should be expensive.

As far as I can tell this isn't a project thats been on the radar recently so feels like a political driven decision, welcome though it is, and maybe NR isn't at shovel ready yet hence relatively long time period for delivery.

 

[Ianno87]

As stated here, that would work just fine. Obviously if the bay were long enough, you'd use that instead because it allows WCML traffic to be looped in platform 1. But such looping is only an option for relatively short freight trains (the platform is 168m, the track circuit is probably a little longer) in the first place, so it doesn't make a massive difference.

Also the turnout into P1 from Preston is horrendously slow - 10mph. Easier just to keep the train moving in most cases than attempt to loop there.

 

[CdBrux]

They're for Mrs Miggins

of Wigan... very good!

 

[WAO]

£78M for 13 (track) miles is conveniently £6m/stm, (£3.76M/stkm) which may be a rounded estimate not a calculated cost.

17 bridges to fix is a lot for 6.19 route miles but the cost includes for quite a lot more that a basic BR 1980's electrification. I expect NR/GBR will deliver on time and under budget as a showpiece.

Very good news.

WAO

 

[Efini92]

Makes not much sense to electrify unless combined with Calder Valley and/or Southport/Kirkby, really.

It would give more options to divert electric services if there was problems via Chorley, which given the state round Chorley tunnel is quite often.

Crow Nest Jn-Wigan is fine, it's Crow Nest-Salford Crescent (specifically, Crow Nest-Walkden) that's poor - it's an 8 minute headway behind stoppers. But as you say, I suspect it won't be done.

It’s poor all the way to Windsor bridge north jn. 2 aspect signalling should be consigned to the history books.

 

[zwk500]

It would give more options to divert electric services if there was problems via Chorley, which given the state round Chorley tunnel is quite often.

With the route announced today, you've got via Chorley, via Westhoughton or via Chat Moss, do you really need 4 possible routes? Especially as the connection at Wigan NW between either Hindley Route and the WCML is 10/15mph and single-lead.

 

[Watershed]

Also the turnout into P1 from Preston is horrendously slow - 10mph. Easier just to keep the train moving in most cases than attempt to loop there.

Yes, 2 minute adjustment for approach control. Still sometimes the 'least worst' option.

 

[Efini92]

With the route announced today, you've got via Chorley, via Westhoughton or via Chat Moss, do you really need 4 possible routes? Especially as the connection at Wigan NW between either Hindley Route and the WCML is 10/15mph and single-lead.

4 routes? It’s more down to route knowledge, the majority that work the electric services via Chorley don’t sign via golborne.

 

[edwin_m]

Crow Nest isnt going to get touched for a long time, it was only resignaled in 2013.

I noticed there was a strange TPR approaching Crow Nest from Atherton - 8min needed behind a train that calls at the last two stations even if the next train makes the same calls. I don't understand the reasons for this - is it something an extra signal (plus a distant) would resolve?

 

[Starmill]

How remarkable. It can be claimed it really was "paused" for 9 years rather than cancelled!

 

[Efini92]

The sections are huge. If two trains were following each other. The first train would have to get to Atherton before the signal after crow nest could clear for the second train.

 

[Ken H]

Wonder who thought this line was more worthy of wiring than Leeds - Church Fenton?

 

[Ianno87]

4 routes? It’s more down to route knowledge, the majority that work the electric services via Chorley don’t sign via golborne.

...presumably then they don't/won't sign Atherton either....?

 

[Watershed]

...presumably then they don't/won't sign Atherton either....?

Man Vic sign Wigan via Bolton and Atherton, but not via Golborne.

 

[snowball]

How remarkable. It can be claimed it really was "paused" for 9 years rather than cancelled!

Probably less than 6 years. I'm not sure exactly when it was kicked into the long grass but probably around the time of the Hendy review which I think was early 2016. The original announcement that it was happpening at all was December 2013.