Will Siemens build any more trains for the uk?

[Mikey C]

By the time trains are ordered for the Jubilee and Northern lines, I imagine the technology will have moved on enough that backwards compatibility would start becoming restrictive

And the Bakerloo, Central and W&C trains have to be built first, which will take us well into the 2030s!

 

[Thirteen]

By the time trains are ordered for the Jubilee and Northern lines, I imagine the technology will have moved on enough that backwards compatibility would start becoming restrictive

And the Bakerloo, Central and W&C trains have to be built first, which will take us well into the 2030s!

I assume TfL would want the Northern and Jubilee stocks to be the same so it would make sense to order them around the same time although they may just have one order then keep the other as an option

 

[JonathanH]

I assume TfL would want the Northern and Jubilee stocks to be the same

Why? I don't think it is certain that they will be replaced at the same time.

 

[Thirteen]

Why? I don't think it is certain that they will be replaced at the same time.

I'm just going by how the SSL was all S Stock and the Deep Level Tube Upgrade will theoretically be the same stock as well.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm just going by how the SSL was all S Stock and the Deep Level Tube Upgrade will theoretically be the same stock as well.

The SSL was all S stock, but clearly they all interact with each other. The Northern and Jubilee Lines don't have any common running stretches.

It would be interesting to consider whether the 95 and 96 stocks are ageing in the same way. Both of them are 25 years younger than the 72 stock.

 

[Thirteen]

The SSL was all S stock, but clearly they all interact with each other. The Northern and Jubilee Lines don't have any common running stretches.

It would be interesting to consider whether the 95 and 96 stocks are ageing in the same way. Both of them are 25 years younger than the 72 stock.

That's a fair point as both were built in the mid 90s but then the Central Line and W&C are going to be replaced before them and they're only a few years younger.

 

[RobShipway]

To quote Siemens

It is purely a train assembly site and currently a small one with lots of space to grow.

That is pretty much how Hitachi started.

 

[Mikey C]

The SSL was all S stock, but clearly they all interact with each other. The Northern and Jubilee Lines don't have any common running stretches.

It would be interesting to consider whether the 95 and 96 stocks are ageing in the same way. Both of them are 25 years younger than the 72 stock.

The 96s have inferior traction equipment to the 95s, being an earlier design similar to the GEC Networkers.

Replacing the Jubilee Line trains will mean replacing the platform edge doors also, unless the train door openings are in the same place, which will be a major additional expense.

 

[MarkyT]

The 96s have inferior traction equipment to the 95s, being an earlier design similar to the GEC Networkers.
to
Replacing the Jubilee Line trains will mean replacing the platform edge doors also, unless the train door openings are in the same place, which will be a major additional expense.

Two option:
1. Modify the bodyside design of the new trains as required to suit existing openings.
2. Replace platform edge doors to match a standard train design.
I don't know how far out of alignment the doors of the NTFL design would be, as being manufactured for the Picadilly Line, but the design might have been conceived with different car length and door spacing in mind for subsequent series builds, so cost may not be insurmountable.
The existing doors may require age/condition-based renewal anyway after a long intensive service life, so it might be possible to rebuild to a different spacing at little additional cost. Even if this was the case, changing door spacing would still be difficult logistically as all sites would have to be complete before the new trains could enter service, and no old trains could run after the first existing installation was taken out of use, unless TfL could get short term derogations to run temporarily without screen doors during a construction period, which I think is highly unlikely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might be easy to move the doors depending on the design. The 195 and 196 have different door positions and window sizes and positions in the same basic bodyshell.

 

[Energy]

I'm just going by how the SSL was all S Stock and the Deep Level Tube Upgrade will theoretically be the same stock as well.

Likely depends on how Siemens perform on the current New Tube contract. TfL have a tendency to reuse proven suppliers. Look at how many Bombardier won, though part of that was Boris influence and Siemens being busy with Thameslink on later contracts.

 

[tomuk]

Likely depends on how Siemens perform on the current New Tube contract. TfL have a tendency to reuse proven suppliers. Look at how many Bombardier won, though part of that was Boris influence and Siemens being busy with Thameslink on later contracts.

The Bombardier S stock and the stock for the Vic have nothing to do with Boris they were conceived under the Blair/Brown Underground PPP period where Bombardier were part of the consortiums who won the contracts to run the SSL and BCV lines.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The difference is that Stadler have the power module car and the other manfucaturers take advantage of the loading guage and either put traction gear on the roof or adopt a double decker design. Neither being easy to adapt for UK system.

They done it well on Mersey Rail!

I think other manufacturers, including Siemens, need to take a close look at what Stadler is doing regarding level boarding. All new fleets need to achieve this in my opinion and the easiest way in UK is to match vehicle floor height over the majority of the train to existing standard 915mm platform height. European manufacturers all have low/medium floor height models in all market sectors apart from high speed that might be tweaked for UK height like the FLIRTs.

If only manufactures realized that including level boarding would make it harder for the government to turn it down especially when other tenders don't include it!