Will the number of rail enthusiasts decline in the coming years?

[Shaw S Hunter]

Mark my words, in 40 years there will be enthusiasts chasing them. 442s for instance were seen as plastic rubbish when introduced.

Speak for yourself! My first trip on one made me realise that it was in fact possible to build a decent unit from a Mk3 base and they were sufficiently comfortable that I started to understand that a future passenger railway relying almost entirely on multiple units was perfectly acceptable. Later visits to Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark underlined that point. So there's no doubt in my mind that it is possible for enthusiasts to happily adapt to an evolving rail scene without becoming grumpy old men and women.

 

[Gostav]

Isn't that what will happen with GBR? I think we are in for bad times if the livery variety also decreases.....

Compared to other railway systems in mainland Europe, there are still have too many tiny fleets in UK railways.

Question: How many people are interested in Class 139 and go there for take a photo and a return trip specifically?

 

[riceuten]

The problem with Voyagers, and especially Pendolinos is that no heritage railway can spare enough space to store them. The NRM may take one or two "driving" coaches, and someone may find space to keep a four coach Voyager, but the chances of retaining a full length Pendolino in working order seem very remote.

I think you're slightly missing the point here. People will enthuse about different types of trains, now and in the future. There is no "golden age" of trains, it will constantly shift

 

[03_179]

Question: How many people are interested in Class 139 and go there for take a photo and a return trip specifically?

It's one of the classes I really want to have a go one and clear them both for haulage

 

[birchesgreen]

Compared to other railway systems in mainland Europe, there are still have too many tiny fleets in UK railways.

Question: How many people are interested in Class 139 and go there for take a photo and a return trip specifically?

Judging by posts i see on twitter from time to time, a fair number.

 

[Magdalia]

I think that a lot of the drama and excitement has gone, for example, in my younger days traveling in a Mk1 directly behind a Class 37 touching 100 mph between Bishop Stortford and Cambridge felt a lot more exciting and enjoyable than doing the same journey today on a whimpering little 720.

Line speed between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge, prior to electrification, was 70 mph. In those days, exceeding speeds limits by small margins happened from time to time on late running trains. But in my extensive experience travelling on this line I can't recall anything over 80 mph between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge in diesel days.

 

[HST274]

I deliberately avoid Youtube channels where the creator is more obsessed with getting his/her gurning face in front of the camera than of showing interesting visual content - unless the above named channel has changed this was certainly one of the culprits a year or two ago. (As a sidenote, his reaction to my polite suggestion at the time that a better experience would be enjoyed by the viewer being able to see the sights of the area in which he was walking, rather than his face, was met by a response of "if you don't like it, go away". So I did)
But fortunately there are plenty of other uploaders who provide interesting historical and current images and video from start to finish, without a selfish selfie stick in sight.

I would that his videos are in a sub category where he is as much of the appeal as the walk or journey itself-his subscriber count speaks for itself. This is in contrast to a youtuber who simply videos trains with captions, where the aim is to show the viewer trains and nothing more.

And to be fair, like with any video I don't like, I don't have to watch it, and unless they are struggling they don't need to change their style either.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Line speed between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge, prior to electrification, was 70 mph. In those days, exceeding speeds limits by small margins happened from time to time on late running trains. But in my extensive experience travelling on this line I can't recall anything over 80 mph between Bishops Stortford and Cambridge in diesel days.

My mistake, I was a kid then and to me it felt really fast and Uncle Des was with me and he said that he could work out speed by counting posts along the line and that we were doing nearly 100 mph, perhaps he really wasn't as clever as he thought he was.

 

[Giugiaro]

One of the things I've shied away for years were model railways.
I've seen this same discussion being held online about the decline in interest from younger generations.


From my point of view, accessibility is key for someone to nurture a form of enthusiasm, or to quell it in favour of something else equally interesting and much less painful to invest oneself to.
I'm gawked at the prices practiced in model railways, with models often costing a good fraction of a salary. Especially in countries where this hobby is a much more obscure niche than, say, the UK, Germany, France, or the US.

I've recently decided to dump HO in favour of N scale, and even then I had to surrender myself to Japanese model railways to find something exciting, flexible, easy to build and store, and at a good price.
I cannot understand how a KATO multiple unit composed of 8 cars and manufactured in Japan can be less expensive than a single Portuguese diesel locomotive built in China.

Or maybe I can.
Railways are huge in Japan and railway enthusiasts are more worried about having the stock they want, than being able to read the UIC number of a wagon with a magnifying glass.
From my experience making 3D models for railway simulators (one of the cheapest ways to play with trains in Europe) I find Europeans incredibly obsessed with detail.
Detail at such a small scale, like N, isn't cheap.

Add in the push for digital railway modelling, and then wonder why the youngsters aren't investing a third of their salary in tiny "toy" trains. For that money one can buy an Interrail pass.

 

[L401CJF]

I got into trains from nursery age, going out shopping with mum into Birkenhead at weekends on the then pre-refurb 507/508s. To a lot of people on here, theyre tat, but to me theyre where it all started, and will be the start of the end.

From weekend trips into town it became "can we go to Southport", then we started venturing to Wrexham from Bidston on the then 142 and 153s- DMUs had entered the game for me. Every time Dad was driving us somewhere it was "can we just nip to the station car park just for 2 trains please!!".

Family holidays always involved "Dad, can you check the map and see if theres a station?"

Then my teens came in the late 2000s. Crewe most weekends, yahoo groups for the gen. Even then we had plenty of DRS 37s and 20s on the flasks, 57s on 390 drags at weekends etc.

The thing is, the railway I grew to love isnt here anymore. The majority of the "BR" feel slowly gets less and less with time, the Merseyrail network isnt the network I grew so fond of, modernisation has stolen a lot of the charm. The railway doesnt feel as friendly anymore. Nip down the end of a platform for a quick photo and its not long before youre quizzed by staff.

For me, the departure of the 507/508 is the beginning of the end. Ive just started with TfW as a conductor, a dream come true, I get to work the sprinters I grew up with, but not for long. Give it a few years, those sprinters will be gone, and for me, thats pretty much it. As said countless times upthread, the variety is gone. Passenger workings will be very bland, classes all of the same families, all look and sounds pretty similar, very clinical interiors - no thanks, not for me.

But at the same time, as the stuff ive grown to love is phased out and I fail to love the new kids on the block, there are still plenty of teens lurking on the platform ends with their tripods at weekends, just as I did, the new stock being their equivalent of my 507/508.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Compared to other railway systems in mainland Europe, there are still have too many tiny fleets in UK railways.

Question: How many people are interested in Class 139 and go there for take a photo and a return trip specifically?

I certainly have done. They're a lovely little quirk definitely likely to appeal to enthusiasts. Same with 230s if you can find one that is actually working.

 

[MattRat]

One of the things I've shied away for years were model railways.
I've seen this same discussion being held online about the decline in interest from younger generations.


From my point of view, accessibility is key for someone to nurture a form of enthusiasm, or to quell it in favour of something else equally interesting and much less painful to invest oneself to.
I'm gawked at the prices practiced in model railways, with models often costing a good fraction of a salary. Especially in countries where this hobby is a much more obscure niche than, say, the UK, Germany, France, or the US.

I've recently decided to dump HO in favour of N scale, and even then I had to surrender myself to Japanese model railways to find something exciting, flexible, easy to build and store, and at a good price.
I cannot understand how a KATO multiple unit composed of 8 cars and manufactured in Japan can be less expensive than a single Portuguese diesel locomotive built in China.

Or maybe I can.
Railways are huge in Japan and railway enthusiasts are more worried about having the stock they want, than being able to read the UIC number of a wagon with a magnifying glass.
From my experience making 3D models for railway simulators (one of the cheapest ways to play with trains in Europe) I find Europeans incredibly obsessed with detail.
Detail at such a small scale, like N, isn't cheap.

Add in the push for digital railway modelling, and then wonder why the youngsters aren't investing a third of their salary in tiny "toy" trains. For that money one can buy an Interrail pass.

Yeah, I saw the end result coming miles off. We always want more, but we never want to pay for it. That's why finance deals are so popular nowadays, as people can afford nicer things via them (while unwittingly setting themselves up for debt).

Either the public needs to accept lower quality to be able to afford things, or we have to start financing model trains. How would you feel paying 20 pounds a month for 12 months?

 

[coradiafan2000]

I went down to Salisbury today to see the Flying Scotsman, and about 20 minutes after it left a small group of school boys arrived, still in uniform. I got chatting with the Grandfather of one of them and he said they were only around 14. One of them promptly set up a tripod and started filming all the regular traffic through the station- I was surprised he presumably lugged it all around school all day just so he could bring it there!

One thing I overheard them discussing though did get me thinking about the changing demographic of railway enthusiasts though. While they were aware of the Flying Scotsman's visit and planned to stay until 1700 to see it return, they said they were mainly there to see freight workings. Now I know that they're a generation very far removed from the ones that grew up with A3s, but it really surprised me that they're apparently more interested in random 66s than the world's most famous steam locomotive. I mean I'm only about 7 or 8 years older than these kids, and I came all the way down from South Wales to see it

Obviously different people find different things interesting. I've never personally been that interested in freight unless something exciting like a 56 is on it, passenger workings are what interest me most. I do wonder if as the decades go by less and less people will go out of their way to see steam specials, and likewise will sets like the Pullman HST and the IC Swallow 87 attract bigger crowds?

 

[ABB125]

I went down to Salisbury today to see the Flying Scotsman, and about 20 minutes after it left a small group of school boys arrived, still in uniform. I got chatting with the Grandfather of one of them and he said they were only around 14. One of them promptly set up a tripod and started filming all the regular traffic through the station- I was surprised he presumably lugged it all around school all day just so he could bring it there!

One thing I overheard them discussing though did get me thinking about the changing demographic of railway enthusiasts though. While they were aware of the Flying Scotsman's visit and planned to stay until 1700 to see it return, they said they were mainly there to see freight workings. Now I know that they're a generation very far removed from the ones that grew up with A3s, but it really surprised me that they're apparently more interested in random 66s than the world's most famous steam locomotive. I mean I'm only about 7 or 8 years older than these kids, and I came all the way down from South Wales to see it

Obviously different people find different things interesting. I've never personally been that interested in freight unless something exciting like a 56 is on it, passenger workings are what interest me most. I do wonder if as the decades go by less and less people will go out of their way to see steam specials, and likewise will sets like the Pullman HST and the IC Swallow 87 attract bigger crowds?

Freight is far more exciting, varied, unusual etc compared to mundane, repetitive passenger workings. On the occasions when I have time for lineside photography, although there will usually be a particular train that I want to see (eg: rare freight move, railtour etc), the time I actually arrive/depart is often based on whether there are any freights due through shortly before or after.

 

[John Luxton]

I went down to Salisbury today to see the Flying Scotsman, and about 20 minutes after it left a small group of school boys arrived, still in uniform. I got chatting with the Grandfather of one of them and he said they were only around 14. One of them promptly set up a tripod and started filming all the regular traffic through the station- I was surprised he presumably lugged it all around school all day just so he could bring it there!

One thing I overheard them discussing though did get me thinking about the changing demographic of railway enthusiasts though. While they were aware of the Flying Scotsman's visit and planned to stay until 1700 to see it return, they said they were mainly there to see freight workings. Now I know that they're a generation very far removed from the ones that grew up with A3s, but it really surprised me that they're apparently more interested in random 66s than the world's most famous steam locomotive. I mean I'm only about 7 or 8 years older than these kids, and I came all the way down from South Wales to see it

Obviously different people find different things interesting. I've never personally been that interested in freight unless something exciting like a 56 is on it, passenger workings are what interest me most. I do wonder if as the decades go by less and less people will go out of their way to see steam specials, and likewise will sets like the Pullman HST and the IC Swallow 87 attract bigger crowds?

Thing is Flying Scotsman has become overhyped. Given this was the first preserved loco I travelled behind on the mainline as a child "Moorlands Railtour" 1968 you might think I would have some affection for it but it's pedestal elevation which personally I don't think it deserves has ended that.

Mention to me that Flying Scotsman was to appear at a station that would now mean - avoid.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Thing is Flying Scotsman has become overhyped. Given this was the first preserved loco I travelled behind on the mainline as a child "Moorlands Railtour" 1968 you might think I would have some affection for it but it's pedestal elevation which personally I don't think it deserves has ended that.

Mention to me that Flying Scotsman was to appear at a station that would now mean - avoid.

I have to disagree with that, and I think you would too if you were at Salisbury when it was there. Platforms were absolutely rammed with people of all ages wanting to snap it. It's still very much a British icon that is close to a lot of people's hearts.

 

[Roast Veg]

There are a very large number of anti-car urbanists who are making extremely positive comments about railways of late.

 

[John Luxton]

I have to disagree with that, and I think you would too if you were at Salisbury when it was there. Platforms were absolutely rammed with people of all ages wanting to snap it. It's still very much a British icon that is close to a lot of people's hearts.

Well you have said it "rammed" as someone who tries to avoid large crowds that is why I would avoid it. I just don't see the point of joining large numbers of people, many of whom are not railway enthusiasts but casual "gongoozlers" attracted probably by an article in the 'local rag'. Just seems like hard work. I really don't like crowds and would far prefer to have a station platform much to myself.

 

[6Gman]

Isn't that what will happen with GBR? I think we are in for bad times if the livery variety also decreases.....

The curious thing is that for many of my generation the switch from national liveries to a host of sector/TOC liveries actually diminished interest.

 

[Runningaround]

Before Wikipedia and You tube I wouldn't know anything other than a 125 or TGV I've got an idea now and watch them for cab and window views of journeys i'm going to do. I get bored after half an hour on a train station.
I find the same with Aircraft and Ships, the travel and the power and size interests me. Prior to the internet I wouldn't know what Plane or even remember the Airlines I flew on in the 90's.
For me a train with an engine on front was a Diesel, then Sprinters replaced them. I've never sought out a train or stood on a platform to watch any. I'll take notice if a Charter passes while i'm there as they look smart. A freight or Pendolino at full speed looks impressive
Outside of when I travel or Portillo type programs Trains don't fascinate me much.

Older generations had little to do and blokes like collecting things mine is football related. I have interest in watching sports that I grew up with and watched young. I've lost interest in Sports that moved to SKY in the 90's, Rugby League is one as I couldn't watch it live anymore.

It seems youngsters are getting into it through I do see the younger generation are far less conscious about their hobby perhaps its because of the youtube videos available and Photo Sharing sites that are full of Transport pictures that's made it seem normal.

I know some spotters, one on a trip to a big city watched and commentated on the Buses even within the vicinity of famous landmarks, it was a bit embarrassing in a pub while trying to engage in conversation with strangers. He was probably the first person I knew who wouldn't hide his train hobby.

You only need to see how the 50 - 30 year olds react when they are caught spotting on videos they try to conceal the notepad and pen and hide from the cameras.I'm sure they buy their Rail magazines out of town so nobody would catch them.
I thought by then you wouldn't give a damn who knows what you like, perhaps spotting isn't dying it's just not admitted too, I don't care who knows my anorak type hobby.
.

 

[MattRat]

I have to disagree with that, and I think you would too if you were at Salisbury when it was there. Platforms were absolutely rammed with people of all ages wanting to snap it. It's still very much a British icon that is close to a lot of people's hearts.

I could still call that overhyped. No other steam loco draws those crowds bar maybe Mallard. Plenty of other engines to see, not just Scotsman. What about, say, City of Truro, or Papyrus.

 

[yorksrob]

Scotsman's nice, but it's no thumper.

 

[Razorblades]

Scotsman is the railway casual interest equivalent of Ferrari and the Manchester United soccer people; safe and not uncool to namedrop.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Wow. I never knew there was such an apparent distaste for the Scotsman on these forums. Don't get me wrong I also think it's SLIGHTLY overrated, it wasn't even the fastest of it's class after all. But it's got a fascinating history and I still love it. It's definitely one of my favourite steam locos in preservation. It's also the only A3 in preservation, which is another reason why I like it as I've always liked the class, and enjoyed listening to my father's memories of them at Grantham when he was a child.

Anyway, my point was that I wonder if future generations won't care as much about steam locomotives in general, not the Flying Scotsman specifically.

 

[MattRat]

Anyway, my point was that I wonder if future generations won't care as much about steam locomotives in general, not the Flying Scotsman specifically.

The new builds suggest otherwise. Especially if the T1 new build beats Mallard's record.

 

[raspberrypeel]

This thread prompted me to create an account, as I hope my thoughts might actually be useful. I'm 23 years old, for reference.

I think the answer has to be both 'yes' and 'no'. It also depends on what is being referred to by 'enthusiast'.

I agree with quite a lot of the sentiment posted already about the decline of the 'lone male noting down train numbers' enthusiast. I'd guess that has been happening for decades already though - think it must have been in the 2000s the last time I saw a spotter who wasn't just taking videos/photos. This is just reflecting changes in society rather than rail enthusiasm though, in my opinion. It's no longer so widely accepted that fathers can just leave the house all day at the weekends leaving their wife/partner stuck at home alone with the kids, and ultimately why would you brave the wind and rain when you could just do the same from a video stream in the comfort of your own home?

However, I'd say that 'softcore enthusiasm' is arguably the most popular it has been for several decades, and will probably continue to grow as lots of it is driven by young Americans who dislike car dependency culture and are envious of HSR systems in Europe and Asia. I'd say the main groups/drivers for softcore enthusiasm are:

Urbanism (as mentioned above)
Technological interests
Plain old 'I like things that move quickly'
Climate change

The last one is particularly important as it is probably the only group/driver that has any significant proportion of women involved in it. Greta Thunberg's whole thing was travelling around mainly by rail. Okay, she's at the very very soft end of softcore, but it's a gateway right?

I occasionally talk with several different friends quite casually about trains and rail infrastructure, all of whom are roughly my age and from different areas of the country with different backgrounds and interests, and none of us are 'train guys' so to speak. Sure, it's more 'is LNER first class better than GWR first class?' (yes!!!!) or 'how good will HS2 be? or 'they need to build a line between X and Y' than 'have you seen any class 507s at Middle of Nowhere Parkway yet?' but it's enthusiasm nonetheless. So in summary, don't give up on us youngsters yet!

 

[Bertie the bus]

..., and ultimately why would you brave the wind and rain when you could just do the same from a video stream in the comfort of your own home?

Because doing something is better than watching it on a screen. I might be, in fact almost certainly am, in a minority but one of the attractions for me has been to get away from everything for a while and do something that interests me without having to care about all the stuff that is going on. A bit like fishing really, just leave everything behind for a few hours.

 

[6Gman]

This thread prompted me to create an account, as I hope my thoughts might actually be useful. I'm 23 years old, for reference.

I think the answer has to be both 'yes' and 'no'. It also depends on what is being referred to by 'enthusiast'.

I agree with quite a lot of the sentiment posted already about the decline of the 'lone male noting down train numbers' enthusiast. I'd guess that has been happening for decades already though - think it must have been in the 2000s the last time I saw a spotter who wasn't just taking videos/photos.

Curious. There are guys who do that regularly round here (I mean take numbers without taking photos/videos.)

Actually, I fall into that category - occasionally take photos but not usually.

 

[thenorthern]

Interest in the railways and railway knowledge is certainly increasing amongst the general public. I assume that is down to the fact that pre-covid more and more people were taking the train.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Interest in the railways and railway knowledge is certainly increasing amongst the general public. I assume that is down to the fact that pre-covid more and more people were taking the train.

More information is now available in the public domain and which wasn't possible before the internet