Woman Gets £480 Bill For Putting Feet On Seats.

[MrTurbostar170]

A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

 

[Neptune]

I have a theory that the advent of the mobile phone has contributed a lot to feet on seats. People want to use them supported at a comfortable viewing angle, rather than hold them aloft with their feet on the floor and thighs horizontal. Elevating legs with the knees bent provides the perfect resting position for their phone.

It's no excuse but it makes some sort of sense if you've ever tried to pay attention to a phone while in a non-table seat. There really is no explanation for people at table seats using the facing seats as a footrest though. Another reason I always choose an airline seat, but even then you get the youngsters leaning against the window with their feet all over the aisle seat .

It was happening long before mobile phones. I’ve been going on trains for over 50 years and it’s always happened and it’s all ages too, not just the young. It is such a disgusting thing to do and I’m glad Merseyrail go hard on it, I wish every company would.

 

[theironroad]

This happened to me a couple of years ago on the older trains. both seats opposite where vacant and i put my foot on the metal between the seat and carriage bodyside. enforcement guy told me to take it down, i expressed my surprise as it wasn't touching cushions and can't remember exactly what he said, but tbf he didn't threaten to fine me. I complied and tbf I tend to agree with it in many ways now providing their is clear signage in the carriage as even I don't expect people to read the whole byelaws before getting on train.

The article seems to make a big deal of the fact that no other operator was enforcing it as that is a good reason for Merseyrail no to.

I have in past on other trains removed shoes and placed clean socked feet on cushions, wonder how they would deal with that?

Also, some builders and people in soiled and really dirty uniform sit on seats that leave far worse issues for following passengers, not sure how Merseyrail deal with them?

In terms of byelaws, the two I'd like to see a massive crackdown on at the moment is use of electronic cigs /vaping and playing sound through a device loudspeakers. Both are making some travel intolerable and its becoming rife.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The original penalty was £60.
Note how Wales Online plays the nationalism card, even though the woman lived in Sealand, right next to the border.
I expect the Liverpool Echo would complain if a scouser was caught with feet on seats on TfW's new 397s (or any "Welsh" train).

I thought Sealand was that unofficial meme country on a WW2 defence installation?

 

[Horizon22]

They would eve4 do that being own3d by Reach.

What I want to know is why so many people didn't enter pleas.

Address issues? Head in the sand?

 

[stuu]

A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

I should hope so. Why would you do such an antisocial thing?

 

[Bertie the bus]

I see from the comments that most members of the public are pleased that action was taken to stop this filthy habit of soiling the seats.

Did they not read the article? There is a cost of living crisis, she does something related to charities and she's Welsh, so by the tone of that article she should be allowed to do whatever she wants.

 

[skyhigh]

A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

Yes, it could potentially breach byelaw 6 resulting in a criminal conviction and a fine as below if convicted.

6. Unacceptable behaviour​

No person shall:

...
4. soil any part of the railway
...
8. molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway

1. offence and level of fines: any person who breaches any of these byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale

 

[Bedpan]

A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

I'd say that it was more of an "lack of consideration for one's fellow traveller" thing than a "Merseyrail" thing.

 

[trainophile]

You shouldn't need a rule, it should be what used to be called "generally acceptable behaviour". I despair of the way this country has gone in matters of consideration for others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You shouldn't need a rule, it should be what used to be called "generally acceptable behaviour". I despair of the way this country has gone in matters of consideration for others.

I hear this every time someone posts on a local Facebook group about having been fined for dropping litter, usually a cigarette butt.

I have only a one word response for this - "good".

I'd like to see this extended to the deliberate playing of electronic devices out loud, to be honest.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

It seems to me it would be better if a Penalty Notice for Disorder applied at fixed £60/£90 bands for this kind of offence. It's a shame the framework for these can't be extended to minor Byelaw infractions such as this.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying it's justifiable by calling it minor, it shouldn't be happening at all, people should be able to take reasonable care of public seat cushions that they themselves are using.

I politely asked a teenage girl sitting diagonally opposite my nephew and I to take her feet off the seats, as other people will want to be sat there later, as the train fills up.
Her mother, indignant that a total stranger should even speak to her precious kid, starts swearing and using phrases like ‘is this YOUR personal f**king train, then?’
I’d have loved to her seen her cop a £60 penalty!!

 

[trainophile]

I politely asked a teenage girl sitting diagonally opposite my nephew and I to take her feet off the seats, as other people will want to be sat there later, as the train fills up.
Her mother, indignant that a total stranger should even speak to her precious kid, starts swearing and using phrases like ‘is this YOUR personal f**king train, then?’
I’d have loved to her seen her cop a £60 penalty!!

What a dreadful indictment of parenting these days.

 

[43066]

I politely asked a teenage girl sitting diagonally opposite my nephew and I to take her feet off the seats, as other people will want to be sat there later, as the train fills up.
Her mother, indignant that a total stranger should even speak to her precious kid, starts swearing and using phrases like ‘is this YOUR personal f**king train, then?’
I’d have loved to her seen her cop a £60 penalty!!

Yes people don’t react very well to people chastising their badly brought up brats. Probably because deep down they know it exposes them as bad parents.

 

[KGX]

People are animals. See it all the time. Total lack of decency.

 

[infobleep]

It was happening long before mobile phones. I’ve been going on trains for over 50 years and it’s always happened and it’s all ages too, not just the young. It is such a disgusting thing to do and I’m glad Merseyrail go hard on it, I wish every company would.

I wonder if someone is changed over £400, do Merseyrail make a bigger profit then £60 or is it all swolled by the time it takes to get hold of them and chase them to court. I'm hoping they wouldn't make a loss.

Address issues? Head in the sand?

Head in the sand I can understand. Address would take time for them to tracked down but not in conceivable either.

 

[tspaul26]

I'd like to see this extended to the deliberate playing of electronic devices out loud, to be honest.

Pah, the punishment for that should be having the device smashed in front of the miscreant with a window hammer!

I wonder if someone is changed over £400, do Merseyrail make a bigger profit then £60 or is it all swolled by the time it takes to get hold of them and chase them to court. I'm hoping they wouldn't make a loss.

There’ll be no profit in it. The £483 is almost certainly made up of:

• £220 Band A fine (half of assumed weekly income of £440 - I expect this convict ignored the summons or otherwise didn’t complete the MC100 statement of means)
• £88 surcharge (40% of the fine)
• £175 costs

Merseyrail only gets the costs element (assuming that the woman even pays up) and they’ll be lucky to have brought the prosecution for less than that.

The key benefit as far as they are concerned is the deterrent effect of the publicity.

 

[Krokodil]

I have to clean up after people who can leave amazing mess behind in their compartment after only a 20 min journey. You would not believe what we find.

Oh I would believe it. Unwrapped nappies for example...

I hear this every time someone posts on a local Facebook group about having been fined for dropping litter, usually a cigarette butt.

I have only a one word response for this - "good".

I think that many people are coming around to this point of view. If someone posts that a traffic warden is in the area the general response in the comments is "excellent, the parking is terrible".

 

[GoneSouth]

Yes, putting feet on seats is unpleasant, but it’s not £500 unpleasant. But Serco’s director bonuses don’t pay themselves.

And the penalty for putting her feet on the seat wasn’t £500, it was £60. I don’t think that an unreasonable amount given filth on her shoes could require the seat covering to be replaced, or it could ruin another passenger’s clothing. The final total of £500 was entirely her own fault

No sympathy here I’m afraid, wherever the final total of £500 goes.

Disgusting dirty people

A few months ago a ticket inspector on a Thameslink train warned me I would be fined if I continued to have my feet on the seats. I always knew it was a Merseyrail thing but can this rule also apply elsewhere?

Why did you find it necessary to put your feet on the seat, can you not see it’s a pretty antisocial thing to do?

 

[FenMan]

"It is ridiculous. I didn't know about the rule because I hadn't been on a train in years. I do see the deterrent side of things but as someone who drives a lot, I hadn't got a clue.

If this woman drives a car with one, or more, of her feet being on the seats then I'll agree she hasn't got a clue.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I see that a woman has ended up with a £480 bill for putting feet on seats on Merseyrail train. (She did not pay the initial penalty).

I see from the comments that most members of the public are pleased that action was taken to stop this filthy habit of soiling the seats.

Woman gets 'ridiculous' £480 bill for putting foot on train seat

She is one of several passengers from Wales who have received hefty court bills for breaching a byelaw on an English rail network

www.walesonline.co.uk

Excellent news. Feet on seats is an utterly disgusting habit and I'm quite frankly sick and tired of having to repeatedly request that people have an ounce of respect for their surroundings each time I walk through a carriage.

How such a vile, selfish habit is deemed as "acceptable" by so many is beyond me.

 

[Thirteen]

£483 seems too low IMO I'd prefer if we chopped people feet off.

Why people don't pay the initial fine, I don't know. It's much easier just to pay it and get on with your life.

 

[baz962]

Oh I would believe it. Unwrapped nappies for example...


I think that many people are coming around to this point of view. If someone posts that a traffic warden is in the area the general response in the comments is "excellent, the parking is terrible".

Regarding your last bit about parking and the parking warden. When I lived near the Dunstable area , the decision was made to stop using parking enforcement officers and leave it to the police , back around 20 years ago. But they rarely did it due to more important issues and the town as a whole actually asked for the enforcement officers to return. I find parking one of those issues that a lot of people find it acceptable to park where they please , only to get upset if someone else has parked badly at their house/workplace etc .

 

[Envoy]

It says a lot about our society if they have to put a notice on the train saying “Do Not Pout Feet On Seats”. (I would also include animals being banned from sitting on seats - as cover in my earlier thread some months ago).

On Thursday afternoons at 14.30 (UK winter time), I watch ‘Japan Railway Journal’ on NHK (Freesat 209). Everything looks so clean and the people seem to be very polite. Can’t see Japan needing to have such notices about feet on seats.
Also on internet:> https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/

Go behind the scenes of Japan's amazing railways. Interesting facts, new technologies, expert tips, plus where to go, how to get there and more!

 

[GoneSouth]

£483 seems too low IMO I'd prefer if we chopped people feet off.

We all wanted to say it but suspected we’d be censored (I have been before)!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It says a lot about our society if they have to put a notice on the train saying “Do Not Pout Feet On Seats”. (I would also include animals being banned from sitting on seats - as cover in my earlier thread some months ago).

On Thursday afternoons at 14.30 (UK winter time), I watch ‘Japan Railway Journal’ on NHK (Freesat 209). Everything looks so clean and the people seem to be very polite. Can’t see Japan needing to have such notices about feet on seats.
Also on internet:> https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/japanrailway/

Japanese trains either tend to have longitudinal seating or all seats facing the same way, so feet on seats isn't possible. I do suspect you're right though.

 

[GoneSouth]

Japanese trains either tend to have longitudinal seating or all seats facing the same way, so feet on seats isn't possible. I do suspect you're right though.

Yes, fully support all seats facing the same way, saves having the feet on seats problem and spares you from having to watch someone opposite picking their nose (whilst also giving you some privacy to pick your own I supposr )

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, fully support all seats facing the same way, saves having the feet on seats problem and spares you from having to watch someone opposite picking their nose (whilst also giving you some privacy to pick your own I supposr )

The reduced potential for feet on seats is one reason Merseyrail went for a mostly-airline layout. Though I do wonder if they'll do people for feet against the cantilever support...

 

[WillPS]

Yes, it could potentially breach byelaw 6 resulting in a criminal conviction and a fine as below if convicted.

The 'soiling' offense could presumably be avoided by removing one's shoes before putting feet up?

Whether that's more or less antisocial depends how pongy the offender's feet are I suppose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whether that's more or less antisocial depends how pongy the offender's feet are I suppose.

Smell perhaps, but feet that have done nothing but be inside shoes and socks since they were showered that morning are going to be cleaner than backsides that have sat on all manner of potentially mucky seats, so I don't see why people have a big hangup about this with shoes removed.

Not sure what the Merseyrail rentathugs would do in that case to be honest, possibly just ask you to take them down.